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What’s Wrong With the Economy? It’s You, Not the Data
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
Many Americans believe that the economy and their finances are worse than they really are


WSJ

In The Wall Street Journal’s latest poll of swing states, 74% of respondents said inflation has moved in the wrong direction in the past year.

This assessment, which holds across all seven states, is startling, sobering—and simply not true. I’m not stating an opinion. This isn’t something on which reasonable people can disagree. If hard economic data count for anything, we can say unambiguously that inflation has moved in the right direction in the past year.

In the 12 months through February, inflation, according to the century-old consumer-price index, was 3.2%, compared with 6% a year earlier. Use a slightly different time horizon, or a slightly different measure (such as the index the Federal Reserve prefers) and you get similar results. Take out food and energy—or for that matter look only at food and energy—and inflation is still down.

Yes, some individuals faced higher inflation (someone who bought a house, for instance) but, for the average person, inflation went down.

Yet the average person thinks it went up.

When it comes to the economy, the vibes are at war with the facts, and the vibes are winning. This is obviously bad news for President Biden’s re-election hopes. He can’t exactly tell voters that they are wrong; he would be called out of touch. And it probably wouldn’t change anything. The vibes seem symptomatic of a broader pessimism disconnected from the data.

It’s tempting to chalk this up to a misunderstanding. Lower inflation means the level of prices is still rising, just more slowly than before. People sometimes conflate inflation with the level of prices and believe inflation is getting worse because the price level keeps going up (it rarely goes down).

A recently released Brookings Institution study by Harvard University economist Stefanie Stantcheva sheds light on exactly how people think and feel about inflation. It found that half of respondents defined inflation correctly, as rising prices. The other half defined it incorrectly, mentioning such things as “price gouging” or “overpriced everything.” So, some people might conflate high prices with high inflation. But enough to explain our survey results? Doubtful.

Moreover, the gap between vibes and facts goes well beyond inflation, strongly suggesting choice of words isn’t the explanation.

The U.S. economy—by many measures—is doing great. But many voters think otherwise. Here’s what the data say about why voters feel so bad about the economy and what it could mean for President Biden in the 2024 election.
By 47% to 41%, more Journal poll respondents think their investments or retirement savings went in the wrong direction in the past year—a period in which the stock market roared to record highs, home values held steady or rose, and interest on savings went up.

The average customer retirement account at mutual fund giant Vanguard grew 19% last year. True, that didn’t make up for the 20% decline in 2022, especially after inflation. But it hardly qualifies as the wrong direction.

By more than 2-to-1 (56% to 25%), respondents said the economy had gotten worse rather than gotten better over the past two years. That is difficult to square with robust employment growth, unemployment near its lowest in half a century, or growth in gross domestic product, which actually accelerated last year.


As the saying goes, you can’t eat gross domestic product, or GDP. But what you eat is part of GDP and while people have said for several years that they are cutting back on groceries and eating out, the data show that Americans as a whole are spending more on groceries and restaurant meals, after adjusting for inflation, than in 2019.

To be sure, inflation and shortages were severe from 2021 through early 2023 and the improvement in the data since might not have been enough to erase those bad memories. Still, there is evidence people actually do notice things getting better around them. Surveys by the University of Michigan, for example, find consumer confidence has risen.

Moreover, while respondents rate the national economy as bad by a significant margin, they rate their own state’s economy as good by almost as much.

This is reminiscent of how voters tend to assign low marks to Congress but high marks to their own representatives. But the definition of a good Congress depends a lot on your politics, whereas the definition of a good economy ought to be somewhat objective. Everyone (except a few central bankers) wants lower unemployment. And swing states’ economies have largely tracked the nation’s.

All of this suggests that the bad vibes about inflation and the economy are interlaced with a deeper pessimism about the country—what I’ve previously called “referred pain.”

Stantcheva’s study shows that inflation evokes broader feelings of injustice. People tend to believe that prices rise faster than wages, that companies raise prices because they can but don’t raise wages because they don’t have to, and that the rich always do better with inflation. (Those things are true at times but not over long periods of time.)

Stantcheva told me that, while inflation clearly generates bad feelings, bad feelings about the country or the economy might make them more pessimistic about inflation. For instance, her study finds that, whereas economists associate lower unemployment with higher inflation, the public believes weak growth, high unemployment and high inflation all go together. As one survey respondent said: “To me, inflation is when the economy is more than just hurting. It’s when it’s too tough just to keep positive.”

So, if views on inflation are a function of broader pessimism, where does this pessimism come from?

One popular culprit is the media. A recent study of online news in Nature found that each negative word in a headline increases the click-through rate by 2.3%. This negative bias is nothing new: It was true of unemployment in the 1990s, and true of Covid-19 in 2020, according to research. (It’s even truer of social media—it’s called doomscrolling for a reason.) A recent Brookings analysis by Ben Harris and Aaron Sojourner suggested the negative bias of economic news has intensified in recent years.

But media negativity doesn’t necessarily cause public pessimism; it might simply be correlated. Stantcheva’s study finds that while people get information about inflation from a variety of media, they rely mostly on their own experience. People consume media that confirms their biases, and media—especially social media, with its finely tuned algorithms—tend to give consumers what they want.


The media and the public are negative for the same reason: They are worried about the country. It will take more than lower inflation to change that.
MACS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
Yeeeaaahhhhhh.... riiiiiggghhhhht.

The economy sucks. Joe Biden ruined it with his policies and open borders. It doesn't take a genius to see it.
rfenst Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
Yeeeaaahhhhhh.... riiiiiggghhhhht.

The economy sucks. Joe Biden ruined it with his policies and open borders. It doesn't take a genius to see it.

Mantra-virtuing. You got more accurate numbers that differ?
RayR Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
Pride goes before a fall.

Smart people ain't buying the company line that the economy is strong.
They can feel it in their bones.
If they've been around long enough... they've seen this movie before and they know how it ends.
Injecting more trillions of dollars in new debt money only benefits those who get the loot first, the political class, the politically connected. It does not create prosperity in the long run for the whole.
rfenst Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
RayR wrote:
Pride goes before a fall.

Smart people ain't buying the company line that the economy is strong.
They can feel it in their bones.
If they've been around long enough... they've seen this movie before and they know how it ends.
Injecting more trillions of dollars in new debt money only benefits those who get the loot first, the political class, the politically connected. It does not create prosperity in the long run for the whole.

Where in the world did you actually study subjective economics, finance and accounting?
RayR Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
rfenst wrote:
Where in the world did you actually study subjective economics, finance and accounting?


Whatever your definition of "subjective economics" is, I don't see it, so you'll have to explain.
I was talking about objective truths. You don't believe in that? That's even the core of the scientific method.
ZRX1200 Online
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I believe everything WSJ and Paul Krugman tell me.

Sincerely,
One guy
(I think)
Gene363 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
The price of energy...

Quote:
In 2022, the average U.S. residential retail electricity price was 15.12 cents/kWh, an 11% increase from 13.66 cents/kWh in 2021. After adjusting for inflation, U.S. residential electricity prices went up by 2.5%. Higher fuel costs for power plants drove the increase in residential retail electricity prices.


Higher fuel prices have been rolled into the cost of everything.

Try to get a home built right now.

Mantra-virtuing?
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
RayR wrote:
Whatever your definition of "subjective economics" is, I don't see it, so you'll have to explain.
I was talking about objective truths. You don't believe in that? That's even the core of the scientific method.


That's what the entire article is about- people's general opinions about the economy... contradicts the data.
How about where you studied just "regular" economics, finance and accounting?
RayR Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
rfenst wrote:
That's what the entire article was about.
You don't want to understand what I meant.
How about just "regular" economics, finance and accounting?


I thought the article was about government statistics and surveys and that you are dumb if you don't believe Bidenomics is working.
I know, the people are not supposed to believe their lying eyes, their dollars are not being debased by inflation and assorted government interventions domestically and abroad, and the feckless proles aren't getting poorer, but even if they are, it's not that bad, they should rejoice that the political class and the politically connected are getting richer.

OK, Krugman fan, what is regular economics? I never heard of that school.


























































HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
RayR wrote:
Pride goes before a fall.

Smart people ain't buying the company line that the economy is strong.
They can feel it in their bones.
If they've been around long enough... they've seen this movie before and they know how it ends.
Injecting more trillions of dollars in new debt money only benefits those who get the loot first, the political class, the politically connected. It does not create prosperity in the long run for the whole.



Smart people get the loot first.
MaduroJorge Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-27-2023
Posts: 113
DEar RFENST

As I can't feed my family nor fill up my car with optimistic Democrat rigged projections for
Dow Jones,S&P500or CPI averages and groceries are up15-20% gas80%,mortgages and car loans100%
I'm sticking with this opinion Bidenomics SUCK!!!!
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MaduroJorge wrote:
DEar RFENST

As I can't feed my family nor fill up my car with optimistic Democrat rigged projections for
Dow Jones,S&P500or CPI averages and groceries are up15-20% gas80%,mortgages and car loans100%
I'm sticking with this opinion Bidenomics SUCK!!!!

What numbers?
ZRX1200 Online
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I think where the tires meet the road numbers.

But I dhunt rheed suh goood.
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
The WSJ surveyed 500 millionaires and they all agreed the economy is fine. Vote Joe Biden.
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Oh boy. Inflation numbers just came in hot.
RayR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
HockeyDad wrote:
Oh boy. Inflation numbers just came in hot.


Say it ain't so HD. Do you mean Joey B's Inflation Reduction Act is a FAIL?
deadeyedick Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,120
RayR wrote:
Say it ain't so HD. Do you mean Joey B's Inflation Reduction Act is a FAIL?


No, it was just named wrong. Shoulda been Joey B's Redistribution Act.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
Oh boy. Inflation numbers just came in hot.


Just wait for the revision next month on Page 12!

Remember...we've already played this game!

https://www.cigarbid.com...en-Recession#post4748660

https://youtu.be/B53Vlje7mcM?si=7lFX05maHzQQ8KoI


horse



DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
deadeyedick wrote:
No, it was just named wrong. Shoulda been Joey B's Redistribution Act.



https://youtu.be/NxekqhrjxCM?si=EKGVdB5LsLPdtDCn


Sorry...couldn't help myself!

Frying pan

MACS Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
rfenst wrote:
Mantra-virtuing. You got more accurate numbers that differ?


First I'd need to know where they got their own numbers... I mean, aside from their collective rectums. "Polling"? That's hardly scientific data.
RayR Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
deadeyedick wrote:
No, it was just named wrong. Shoulda been Joey B's Redistribution Act.


I heard it was redistributing stolen loot to Joey B's supporters to fight climate change. Think
Gene363 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
MACS wrote:
First I'd need to know where they got their own numbers... I mean, aside from their collective rectums. "Polling"? That's hardly scientific data.


HD cover that one:

HockeyDad wrote:
The WSJ surveyed 500 millionaires and they all agreed the economy is fine. Vote Joe Biden.

MaduroJorge Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-27-2023
Posts: 113
Here is my anti-inflation solution

Since I can'r print Trillions of worthless dollars as Joey B. and the gang do,
I'm gonna draw an extra Zero on my $10 bills, go down to Publix and tell the cashier Joey sent me
Mr. Jones Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,443
The economy sucks at flea mkts ...

Nobody buying like they used to...
To many "phone fuuuukers and resellers" trying to get everything for
$1.00 to resell on EBAY FOR $50-100....

I DONT SELL THEM ANYTHING


PULL OUT A PHONE OR JEWELERS LOOP @ MY STAND ????

I TOTALLY IGNORE YOU...YOU RATFUUUCK PUNK
Gene363 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
MaduroJorge wrote:
Here is my anti-inflation solution

Since I can'r print Trillions of worthless dollars as Joey B. and the gang do,
I'm gonna draw an extra Zero on my $10 bills, go down to Publix and tell the cashier Joey sent me


Just tell them your Ten$ identify as Hundos.
rfenst Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
First I'd need to know where they got their own numbers... I mean, aside from their collective rectums. "Polling"? That's hardly scientific data.

From the article alone:

1. Wall Street Journal’s latest poll of swing states, 74% of respondents said inflation has moved in the wrong direction in t
he past year.
2. Federal government
3 Brookings Institute
4 .Harvard
5. University of Michigan Survey Research Center
6. Vanguard






OK. So what objective numbers do you rely vs. your subjective opinion?

MACS Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
My eyeballs. My grocery bill. Interest rates. Housing prices. Gas prices. Certainly not polls or anything the government says.
rfenst Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
My eyeballs. My grocery bill. Interest rates. Housing prices. Gas prices. Certainly not polls or anything the government says.

Yes we had a period of high inflation (just like so many other world-wide nations), but it is now down to 3-3.5 percent depending on what you are spending on an.d which measure you use. We got too used to uber cheap money for a decade or more and now we are trending close to if not at the long-run historical rates.
Gene363 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
This thread reminds me of a business doubling prices then announcing a fabulous 25% cut in their prices. Frying pan
MACS Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
Since Biden took office:

Gasoline: +47.8%
Groceries: +21.1%
Eating out: +21.4%
Auto Ins: +22% (largest spike since 1976)
Baby food: +30.3%
Pet food: +23.7%
Rent: +20.9%
Electric: +28.3%
Natural gas: +26.9%
Used cars: +20.9%
Air fare: +32.7%

Real average weekly earnings?? -3.9%

Now spin that for me and tell me how the "data" is telling us the economy is not f---ed up?
rfenst Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
Since Biden took office:

Gasoline: +47.8%
Groceries: +21.1%
Eating out: +21.4%
Auto Ins: +22% (largest spike since 1976)
Baby food: +30.3%
Pet food: +23.7%
Rent: +20.9%
Electric: +28.3%
Natural gas: +26.9%
Used cars: +20.9%
Air fare: +32.7%

Real average weekly earnings?? -3.9%

Now spin that for me and tell me how the "data" is telling us the economy is not f---ed up?

There definitely has been inflation, but that's only one side of the picture.

Extraordinarily high employment rates have kept us out of recession thus far. You are comparing post-covid, supply chain and post-Russia/Ukraine war circumstances.

We were addicted to artificially cheap money compared to norms for so long, it's hard to remember what things were like 10-50 years ago.

Historically speaking we are not iin bad shape right now and it seems the worst has passed.
rfenst Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
[quote=rfenst]There definitely has been inflation, but that's only one side of the picture.

Extraordinarily high employment rates have kept us out of recession thus far. You are comparing post-covid, supply chain and post-Russia/Ukraine war circumstances.

We were addicted to artificially cheap money compared to norms for so long, it's hard to remember what things were like 10-50 years ago.

Historically speaking we are not in bad shape right now and it seems the worst has passed (other than the deficit).





The U.S. economy has made considerable progress in 2023. Inflation is down six percentage points from its peak in 2022. At the same time, real wages are rising and unemployment remains historically low. But despite the significant progress on inflation, Americans continue to feel the pain of higher prices. When incomes rise faster than prices, households can afford more: they have more purchasing power. This is precisely the trend we have seen in the United States since the pandemic. Thanks to rising real wages (wages adjusted for inflation) and record high employment, the typical American can afford more goods and services than before the pandemic.


U.S. Treasury

MACS Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
^Government telling you "everything's fine!"

High employment rates? By what metric? People that quit looking aren't counted and people that lost their jobs or businesses that went BACK to work/opened a new business are counted.
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
^Government telling you "everything's fine!"

High employment rates? By what metric? People that quit looking aren't counted and people that lost their jobs or businesses that went BACK to work/opened a new business are counted.

So what?

Of course it is flawed a bit. But what other objective measures exist when comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges?

It would be nice to perfect formulas to compare to year over year, but that is not possible. There are two methods of inflation being measured by the Fed. One is old. The other newer.

Again, what besides your own subjective opinion are tou relying on?
rfenst Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
The Inflation Thief Rises Again
A new surge in the consumer-price index means the real average hourly wage has risen seven lousy cents in a year.


WSJ- today
rfenst Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
The Labor Market Keeps on Truckin’
A March jobs surge gives the Fed good reason to delay rate cuts.


WSJ Editorial Board
The jobs surge in March is good news for nearly everyone, except perhaps for those in the Federal Reserve who are itching to cut interest rates soon and several times this year. The strong labor market underscores the question we asked earlier this week, which is that maybe monetary conditions aren’t as tight as the Fed claims.

You certainly can’t see financial stress in March payrolls, with the Labor Department reporting 303,000 net new jobs in the month, plus revisions in two previous months that added a net 22,000 more. The unemployment rate fell a tick to 3.8%, as a separate survey showed 469,000 new entrants into the labor force. The labor participation rate climbed and at 62.7% is now above where it was a year ago. This is all good news.

One caveat is that 71,000 of the new jobs came from government, which keeps growing. Another 81,300 came from healthcare and social assistance, which depend heavily on government transfer payments. Leisure and hospitality firms, which are still recovering from the pandemic, kicked in another 49,000. Job growth in the wealth-creating, productivity enhancing parts of the economy wasn’t as robust, but it also still showed overall health.

The March report means the economy continues to defy predictions of an imminent slowdown. The job gains will flow into consumer spending, which should in turn flow into corporate profits. Perhaps this will encourage more business investment, which hasn’t been a hallmark of the post-pandemic economy.

The jobs report certainly complicates the decision at the Fed of when and how rapidly to cut interest rates. Not long ago the markets had expected a March cut, but that day has passed. Then it was June, but there’s now reason to doubt that.

We don’t agree with those who believe in a tradeoff between the job market and inflation. A declining rate of inflation can be healthy for economic growth, as the 1980s and 1990s proved. But the Fed still hasn’t triumphed over its latest bout of inflation, and the last two months of price increases are enough to raise warning signs.

The same is true from overall financial conditions, which hardly cry “restrictive.” Stocks have plateaued a bit but have been on a tear since late October. Commodity prices are up, both the speculative (gold) and those tied to faster economic growth (copper).

It’s true that banks want interest-rate cuts so they can reduce the duration risk in their assets. But the Fed keeps saying the banking system is sound. Why take the risk that inflation stays stubborn or even pops back up by easing money prematurely—especially when there’s so little sign of economic distress?

RayR Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
I've got no WSJ op-eds so ...

Let's Be Honest: The Economy Is NOT Doing Well

04/10/2024 • Mises Wire • Connor O'Keeffe

Quote:
The American economy is not all right. But to see why, you need to look beyond the dramatic numbers we keep seeing in the headlines and establishment talking points.

Take, for instance, the latest jobs report. For the third month in a row, the American economy added significantly more jobs than most economists had been expecting—a total of 303,000 for March. On its face, that’s a good number.

But as Ryan McMaken laid out over the weekend, things don’t look as strong when you dig into the data. For instance, virtually all the jobs added are part-time jobs. Full-time jobs have actually been disappearing since December of last year. In fact, as McMaken highlighted, “The year-over-year measure of full-time jobs has fallen into recession territory.”

Also, most of these new part-time jobs are going to immigrants, many of whom are in the country illegally. There has been zero job creation for native-born Americans since mid-2018. While immigrants are not harming the economy by working, the scale of new foreign-born workers has papered over the employment struggles of the native-born population.

Further, government jobs accounted for almost a quarter of those added—way above the standard ten to twelve percent. Just like with government spending and economic growth, government hiring boosts the official jobs number while draining the actual, value-producing economy.

Some economists, like Daniel Lacalle, argue that the US economy is already experiencing a private-sector recession but that government spending and hiring are propping up the official data enough to hide it.

A recession is inevitable, thanks to the last decade of interest rate manipulation by the Federal Reserve—and especially to its dramatic actions during the pandemic. The recession-like conditions in full-time jobs is further evidence that Lacalle is right.

MORE...

https://mises.org/mises-wire/lets-be-honest-economy-not-doing-well
MaduroJorge Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 03-27-2023
Posts: 113
I've had enough SMOKE N MIRRORS Statistics and "Historical Data" from Rfenst.
I.m out. CUL!!!
ZRX1200 Online
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
.07 in a year?!!

Man my fuel and food bills aren’t nothing now, hot damn.
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