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War Returns to the Middle East
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Hamas’s surprise attack, aided by Iran, is a reminder of Israel’s existential peril—and the growing risk to U.S. allies.


WSJ Editorial Board

The scenes of Israeli civilians gunned down in the streets, children and grandmothers taken hostage, and Palestinians cheering it all are awful to behold. But behold the world must because Saturday’s assault from Gaza shows the reality of the global disorder that is expanding by the month. Israel is on the front lines, but all of the democratic world is a target.

The scale and initial success of the attack puncture many illusions. One is that Israel is secure in its rough neighborhood. The Jewish state may have technological superiority, but it is still threatened by implacable enemies north, south and east.

As the weekend evolved, it became clear this is no simple “terrorist” attack. It is part of a what Hamas and its allies hope is an extended war against Israel on Israeli soil. It is supported by Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon that could unleash a second front in Israel’s north.

The surprise assault was clearly in the planning for months and was timed for the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War in 1973. That it took Israeli troops hours to reach some of the towns overrun by armed Palestinian militants suggests that even Israelis underestimated the threat. There will be a reckoning about the intelligence failure once the crisis is past.

Another myth busted is that Palestinians will live in peace with Israel if they get a state of their own. Not as long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad can terrorize and dominate Palestinians. Israel ceded Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005, but Hamas took over in 2007 and assassinates anyone in the territory who challenges its goal of expelling the Jews from all of Israel.

And please no more condemnation of Israel’s “blockade” or “occupation.” Israel has been allowing 17,000 Gazans to work in Israel each day and would like to allow more. Western critics of Israel don’t live in range of Hamas or Hezbollah rockets supplied by Iran. They don’t have to fear that their grandparents may be dragged from their homes and imprisoned in a Hamas basement to be traded if they aren’t murdered. No Israeli government can afford to cede control of more territory that could become a launching point for Hamas attacks.

Israel faces some difficult choices in the days ahead. A return to the status quo before Saturday’s assault would seem to be intolerable. Hamas would be able to rearm, rebuild its tunnels, and wait to attack again.

But an Israeli invasion of Gaza and reinstatement of Israeli control would be costly in lives and risk that Hezbollah would open a second front in Lebanon. Iran-backed Hezbollah has stockpiled tens of thousands of missiles. A new buffer zone of several miles between Gaza and Israel is another mooted option.

The response is Israel’s to make, and it deserves the West’s support. “My administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering,” President Biden said on Saturday, and we’re glad to hear it.

But the temptation at the White House will be to give Israel a week or so to respond with a free hand, and then lean on the Netanyahu government to stand down. That is always the U.S. pattern, but it shouldn’t be this time. If a wider war breaks out, the U.S. will have to provide Israel with the arms and diplomatic support necessary to destroy Hamas and the military capacity of Hezbollah.

The assault also underscores the continuing malevolence of Iran. The government in Tehran cheered on the attacks, and it has provided the rockets and weapons for Hamas. It may have encouraged the timing as well, hoping the war will block any near-term chance of a rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia. The Biden Administration’s failure to enforce oil sanctions against Iran, as well as its payment of $6 billion for U.S. hostages, looks even more misguided after this bloody weekend.

The attacks on Israel, horrible as they are, at least provide some moral clarity about the stakes in the Middle East. One side seeks the destruction of Israel and the Jews. The other arms itself to protect its citizens and state from that destruction. The internal Israeli debates over its Supreme Court look trivial next to the threat to Israel’s existence.

***
The assault on America’s closest Middle East ally is also a warning about how dangerous the world is becoming. As U.S. power and will recede, bad actors feel empowered to fill the vacuum. American isolationists on the right and left may wish to look away, but the U.S. can’t dodge the consequences.

Refugees from socialist failure in the Americas are flooding over the U.S. border, and sooner or later the U.S. will become a military target. The consequences of post-Cold War complacency are coming fast and furious.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
The Horrific Attacks in Israel Are Brought to You by the Biden Administration



Our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel, fell under attack in a highly planned, highly tactical assault where thousands of rockets were fired into major urban areas in the Jewish state while terrorists simultaneously flooded the streets and killed civilians and soldiers alike.

Israel now finds itself in a war against inhuman actions and guerilla war crimes that have not been seen on this level in decades, with many fearing it's only going to get worse.

As of this writing, Joe Biden himself has been silent. The administration's response wasn't just utterly embarrassing, it was borderline obscene.

The U.S. Office of Palestinian Affairs actually sent out a tweet calling on Israel not to respond with violence.

https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1710599560001634458/photo/1

That tweet was deleted and a spokesperson for the National Security Council offered this tepid statement instead.

The United States unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians. There is never any justification for terrorism. We stand firmly with the Government and people of Israel and extend our condolences for the Israeli lives lost in these attacks. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan has spoken to Israeli National Security Advisor Tzachi Hanegbi and we remain in close contact with our Israeli partners.

It must be clear, however, that Hamas could not have pulled this off alone. The level of coordination implies intelligence and planning that came from somewhere with more resources. We know that Iran routinely supports Hamas, and we also know that Iran has recently come into a lot of new money thanks to the Biden administration paying the nation $6 billion in exchange for U.S. hostages.

Iran has also suffered no consequences for any of its actions. After receiving the money, it promptly blocked U.N. nuclear inspectors from performing any sort of inspection. It has never been held accountable by the U.S. for any of its actions against Israel or the U.S. And yet, it gets treated like the destructive spoiled kid whose parents think it can do no wrong.

Likewise, Hamas can always count on the U.S. progressive left to, at the very least, attempt to equivocate Israel defending its territory to Hamas launching vile terrorist attacks. More often than not, however, the left sides with Hamas over our actual allies, and even lauds its politicians who routinely engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric against Israel.

All of this is permitted by the Biden administration, which hasn't lifted a finger in support of any of our allies in the Middle East, much less Israel, and has openly flirted with Iran, a nation that is openly hostile toward the U.S. and wants nothing more than to see us destroyed. It's mind-boggling that we're even at this juncture right now, despite the fact there is plenty of evidence suggesting Iran is responsible for arming and funding the terrorist group (and plenty of evidence that we know they're responsible).


This is a horrifying moment in world history, and the U.S. isn't doing a thing in defense of its allies.


https://redstate.com/joesquire/2023/10/07/the-horrific-attacks-in-israel-are-brought-to-you-by-the-biden-administration-n2164780?fbclid=IwAR29vvJFzJ40E2XpZZAkErhFf-oYuEbDZtp8TCmro0indf6olBRpi47X3j4


Choco Choco Chip...Who runs Bartertown?
Burner02 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
I think most people with any sense knew it was coming with Iran being emboldened. It just happened sooner than expected.

As of this morning, 800+ Israeli's killed and over 2500+ injured.

Hezbollah is now threating the U.S. that if we get involved they will start striking our troops in the Middle East. Another chance for Slow Joe to excel.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Burner02 wrote:
I think most people with any sense knew it was coming with Iran being emboldened. It just happened sooner than expected.

As of this morning, 800+ Israeli's killed and over 2500+ injured.

Hezbollah is now threating the U.S. that if we get involved they will start striking our troops in the Middle East. Another chance for Slow Joe to excel.



True dat...that's why in Post #1...I laid out my predictions.

http://www.cigarbid.com/...ow-The-Thing#post4573447

Spot on, and easy to do.

Have you seen any conversion of the Left? No. They'll do something even more stupid and blame someone...hell, anyone for their own idiocy!

So...does anyone really believe President Choco-Choco Chip is going to do anything? His administration is another in a LONG line of DNC hatred towards Israel. Idiots still vote for them despite knowing this!

Remember when I brought this article up?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/biden-appoints-rob-malley-iran-envoy-despite-backlash-hawks


Yeah...wish I was wrong, but I knew I wasn't.
rfenst Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Iran prisoner swap for $6 billion in spotlight after Hamas attacks Israel


Reuters

WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - The Palestinian group Hamas's surprise assault on Israel Saturday and Israel's retaliation have killed more than 1,100 people and focused attention on the Iran-backed Islamist group.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Sunday that Iran has not yet been able to spend a single dollar of the $6 billion in funds that were unfrozen in a U.S.-Iran prisoner swap in September.

Blinken also said he had "not yet seen evidence that Iran directed or was behind this particular attack, but there’s certainly a long relationship."

In August, details were made public of a complicated agreement that President Joe Biden approved. Five U.S. citizens detained by Tehran were allowed to leave the country in exchange for the transfer of $6 billion in Iranian funds that had been frozen in South Korea. At the same time, five Iranians held in the United States were allowed to leave.

WHAT WAS THE $6 BILLION?
The $6 billion was Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korean banks. After Washington, under former President Donald Trump, placed a total ban on Iran’s oil exports and sanctions on its banking sector in 2019, these Iranian oil revenues were blocked in Seoul.

WHERE IS THE $6 BILLION NOW?
The funds were not dispersed to Iran. Qatar's central bank is overseeing the funds, which are still in Doha.

"The facts are these — no U.S. taxpayer dollars were involved," Blinken told CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday. "These were Iranian resources that Iran had accumulated from the sale of its oil that were stuck in a bank in South Korea."

Under the terms of the Iran prisoner deal, the money can only be used for humanitarian-related purposes, including purchasing food or other goods outside Iran for import, U.S. officials said.

The U.S. Treasury's undersecretary for terrorism and finance, Brian Nelson, said, "All of the money held in restricted accounts in Doha as part of the arrangement to secure the release of five Americans in September remains in Doha. Not a penny has been spent. These restricted funds cannot go to Iran — it can only be used for future humanitarian-related purposes. Any suggestion to the contrary is false and misleading."

Because of due diligence requirements related to the swap, "It will take many months for Iran to spend down this money," a State Department spokesperson said. "And, as we've said many times, it can only be used to purchase food, medicine, medical devices, and agricultural products for the people of Iran."

WHAT ARE CRITICS OF THE DEAL SAYING?
Most of the Republicans vying to be the party's 2024 presidential nominee tried to link Biden's Iran deal to the attacks, with some alleging, incorrectly, that he or U.S. taxpayers funded the attacks on Israel.

Allowing Iran access to those funds under any circumstances improves its budget situation, freeing up money that would be used to use elsewhere, Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and 2024 Republican presidential candidate, said.

"Let's be honest with the American people and understand that Hamas knows, and Iran knows they're moving money around as we speak, because they know $6 billion is going to be released. That's the reality," she said.
RayR Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
YEAH! Demo-Commies celebrate mass murder. That's what Demo-Commies love the best.

UPDATE: NY Socialists Hold Pro-Palestinian Rally – Chant “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will Be Free” – Following Hamas Mass Murder of over 700 Jews in Israel Raid (VIDEO)

By Jim Hoft Oct. 8, 2023 8:00 pm

Quote:
Hundreds of Pro-Palestinian protesters marched through New York City on Sunday following the slaughter of 700 Jews by Hamas inside Israel on Saturday.

The protesters supported Hamas following the brutal slaughter of 700 Jews including 260 young adults at a concert.

Quote:
DEVELOPING: Pro-Palestinian protesters marching through New York City, denounce Israel. WATCH pic.twitter.com/9SPWUd4gZ4

— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) October 8, 2023


The Democratic Socialists of America (the party of Ilhan Omar, Cori Bush, Rashida Talib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Jamaal Bowman) gathered in New York on Sunday to hold a Pro-Palestinian “All Out for Palestine” rally.

Hamas reportedly launched over 5,000 missiles into southern and central Israel. Reports reveal 700 Israelis are dead over 2,150 are wounded and 100 more taken hostage.

More...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/update-ny-socialists-hold-pro-palestinian-rally-chant/
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
rfenst wrote:
Allowing Iran access to those funds under any circumstances improves its budget situation, freeing up money that would be used to use elsewhere, Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and 2024 Republican presidential candidate, said.

"Let's be honest with the American people and understand that Hamas knows, and Iran knows they're moving money around as we speak, because they know $6 billion is going to be released. That's the reality," she said.


Except you Robert.

Now, explain away the weapons used in Israel that were left by the botched surrender in Afghanistan.


OOOOPSIE!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/foreigners-missing-after-terrifying-red-dawn-moment-israeli-rave
Burner02 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
If I recall correctly the first big money return to Iran took place under Obama. Slow Joe was just copying what he had seen before.

One thing we all can agree on is none of this world turmoil was occurring under Trump.

But we can all agree that the left will blame him.
Stogie1020 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
The absolute vacuum of leadership in Washington is firmly part of the blame equation here. There are certainly other elements, but there is no denying Washington's responsibility.

rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Stogie1020 wrote:
The absolute vacuum of leadership in Washington is firmly part of the blame equation here. There are certainly other elements, but there is no denying Washington's responsibility.


I am curious what you think we could have done to prevent this and what we should be doing?
Stogie1020 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
rfenst wrote:
I am curious what you think we could have done to prevent this and what we should be doing?

1. Anyone who thinks releasing 6 Billion dollars to Iran would not end up funding terrist activities is at best, completely naive and at worst actively inflamatory. How anyone in the US governemtn thought this was going to be a good idea is completely beyond reason.

2. the US has, as of recently, completely abdicated the role of developing peace in the region. Under DJT, there were active tangible commercial, political and social gains. Tangible, not "we are working hard", not "there is a possibility", but real gains. So much so, in fact, that Israel and the Saudis (as you know, Iran's main regional rival) were well on the way to much improved, if not normalized, relations. No thanks to the current US adminstration, though.

It's clear that Iran felt emboldened by the lack of US involvement, the low likelyhood of US retaliation for Iran's involvement, and the sudden infusion of cash by the US into the regime (even if it's 6 billion of their own internal money they now don't have to use for "humanitarian" needs) to try really hard to destabilize the Israeli/Saudi progress.

Leadership in the US was no where to be found, and based on the reports of the Bidens hosting a BBQ at the White House during the initial invasion, I am not hopeful Biden, leader of the party who tolerates AOC and the rest of the antisemitic Squad, will rise to the occasion and suddenly become a leader with respect to Israel. Lot's of telepromter words someone writes for him, but nothing real.

The best we can hope for at this point is that he sends his dog over there to bite some terrorists in the arse.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Stogie1020 wrote:
1. Anyone who thinks releasing 6 Billion dollars to Iran would not end up funding terrist activities is at best, completely naive and at worst actively inflamatory. How anyone in the US governemtn thought this was going to be a good idea is completely beyond reason.

2. the US has, as of recently, completely abdicated the role of developing peace in the region. Under DJT, there were active tangible commercial, political and social gains. Tangible, not "we are working hard", not "there is a possibility", but real gains. So much so, in fact, that Israel and the Saudis (as you know, Iran's main regional rival) were well on the way to much improved, if not normalized, relations. No thanks to the current US adminstration, though.

It's clear that Iran felt emboldened by the lack of US involvement, the low likelyhood of US retaliation for Iran's involvement, and the sudden infusion of cash by the US into the regime (even if it's 6 billion of their own internal money they now don't have to use for "humanitarian" needs) to try really hard to destabilize the Israeli/Saudi progress.

Leadership in the US was no where to be found, and based on the reports of the Bidens hosting a BBQ at the White House during the initial invasion, I am not hopeful Biden, leader of the party who tolerates AOC and the rest of the antisemitic Squad, will rise to the occasion and suddenly become a leader with respect to Israel. Lot's of telepromter words someone writes for him, but nothing real.

The best we can hope for at this point is that he sends his dog over there to bite some terrorists in the arse.



AND...this is how they called it a week ago...

Biden Admin Bragged About How ‘Quiet’ Middle East Has Been One Week Before Deadly Attacks



Just one week ago, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan boasted about how the Middle East is “quieter today than it has been in two decades.”

However, eight days later, Iranian-supported Hamas launched thousands of rockets into Israel, killing hundreds of people.

“What we said is we want to depressurize, de-escalate, and ultimately integrate the Middle East region. The war in Yemen is in; it’s 19 months of truce. For now, the Iranian attacks against U.S. forces have stopped. Our presence in Iraq is stable,” Sullivan said during an interview with The Atlantic.

Just as Sullivan’s comments were made to look like the Biden Administration “achieved” something, an unexpected deadly war broke out.

More about this from Trending Politics:

The situation did indeed shift in a dramatic way, as at least 250 Israeli civilians have been killed while at least 50 others have been taken hostage after an unprecedented jihadist incursion into Israeli territory from the Gaza Strip. Less than one week after Sullivan’s proclamation, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has mobilized upwards of 150,000 reservists and stated that the nation is at war.

Israeli cities first suffered intense rocket bombardments on Saturday morning that left hundreds of citizens dead or wounded across the country. In southern Israel, Islamist terrorists infiltrated Israeli settlements and proceeded to fire indiscriminately at civilians in their cars and homes. Dozens of Israeli civilians and soldiers have been abducted and transported to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli Defense Forces have confirmed.

According to Sullivan, the Biden Administration was kept in the dark, claiming they had no idea Palestine would rage war.

However, despite this, Sullivan said that “Challenges remain.”

“Iran’s nuclear weapons program, the tensions between Israelis and Palestinians. But the amount of time I have to spend on crisis and conflict in the Middle East today, compared to any of my predecessors going back to 9/11, is significantly reduced,” he continued.


Sullivan’s comments will undoubtedly face criticism.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2023/10/08/biden-admin-bragged-about-how-quiet-middle-east-has-been-one-week-before-deadly-attacks-n2629524



Total dereliction of duty from top down with this Biden administration. Just when you can't imagine it getting worse, here comes another stumbling moment. Total $hitshow. Another Trump was right moment to rub in the faces of the Clintonistas.



RobertHively Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
Why does the U.S. monetarily support any foreign war when we have a crumbling infrastructure, unsecure border and many citizens without basic needs met?

It's not like the U.S. has the money to do that either. The Federal Reserve prints the money out of thin air (crazy) and then loans it to the Federal Government with interest. Then the Federal Government sticks the citizens with the bill and calls it democracy.

So it doesn't matter if you're pro war or anti war, you're going to pay the bill. I say that's FUBAR.
Mr. Jones Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
Just send Kamala Harris

and

Jared kushner ( trump's son in law)

You know...the ONE TOTAL IDIOT DOUCHE BAG THAT SUPPOSEDLY SOLVED THE ISRAELI / PALESTINIAN CONFLICT ONLY 4 MONTHS INTO THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY...LIE LIE LIE...THE KID IS A USELESS POS !!!
aLLeDgeDlY

WHEN HE WAS "TIME MAGAZINES" MAN OF THE HOUR
AND THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE WIZARD....

BWUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

WHAT A F**KING JOKE TIMES INFINITY!!!!

THAT F**KING MORON JARED COULDNT SOLVE ANY WORLD PROBLEM EVEN IF HE TRIED... Let alone HE COULDN'T EVEN KEEP HIS OLD MAN OUT OF the B.I.G. H.O.U.S.E. and chris Christy fried his old man because he was a criminal extraordinare...
Bar none...
Mr. Jones Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
OBAMA STARTED THIS WHOLE ENTIRE MESS....

C-130'S FLYING IN FORMATION....

24-7-365....

FILLED WITH PLASTIC WRAPPED wooden PALLETS...

8 FEET HIGH OF BRAND NEW TIMOTHY GIETNER MISTAKE
$100 BILLS FOR ALL THE MULLAHS and Republican Guard...
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Mitch McConnell: Four Steps for the U.S. to Help Israel

Make munitions transfers, offer intelligence support, and impose costs on state sponsors of terrorism.


WSJ Opinion
As hundreds of Iranian-backed terrorists stormed into Israel on Saturday to butcher children and elders, kidnap Israeli civilians, and parade the naked bodies of murdered women through the streets of Gaza, many of their fellow Palestinians and supporters around the world cheered.

The world has again seen the face of evil. Those blessed to live in the democratic West must understand that this barbarism, like that in Russia’s war against Ukraine, threatens all of us. The civilized world needs to offer Israel more than rhetorical solidarity.

There are four practical steps the U.S. and our allies and partners across the world must take to help Israel.

First, distinguish between the aggressor and the victim. There can be no calls for “both sides” to de-escalate. Israel deserves the time and space to defend itself.

Second, quickly provide the specific capabilities and intelligence support Israel needs to target and destroy these savages. As we have seen in Ukraine, failure to act decisively can prolong the conflict and compound the costs of war. Can anyone seriously argue we shouldn’t have provided Ukraine with Javelins, Stingers, Himars, tanks and air defenses sooner? Israel’s requirements in this war will be different from Ukraine’s. The deployment of the USS Ford carrier strike group to the eastern Mediterranean and announcement of munitions transfers to Israel are good first steps.

Third, make America’s national defense a priority. It’s past time for the Biden administration to recognize that while war is expensive, failure costs more. President Biden has requested three consecutive budgets that cut defense spending in real terms while substantially increasing nondefense spending.

There is still time to act. Congress has the opportunity this fall to provide emergency appropriations to the Defense Department so that it can assist partners like Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan, as well as invest in our own military capabilities. This should include significant replenishment funding, which allows us to expand and modernize our own weapons inventories. It should also include investments to expand our ability to produce critical munitions, long-range fires, and other essential defense technologies here in America.

Finally, focus on Iran. There are already indications this war was orchestrated with considerable assistance from Tehran. The world’s most active state sponsor of terror has long provided training and lethal aid to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, just as it has with Hezbollah in Syria and Lebanon and numerous Iraqi and Yemeni proxies. We recognize the deepening partnership between Tehran and Moscow. The same Iranian drones of death Tehran has provided to its terrorist proxies are being used by Russia to inflict terror on Ukraine’s cities.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei himself has said, “God willing, the cancer of the usurper Zionist regime will be eradicated at the hands of the Palestinian people and the Resistance forces throughout the region.” Hamas’s spokesman has also publicly expressed thanks for Iran’s lethal support.

Only the day before this Iranian-backed barbarism, Narges Mohammadi, an imprisoned Iranian women’s rights activist, won the Nobel Peace Prize. Since the nationwide uprising of Iranians protesting the clerical regime’s brutal control and the killing of Mahsa Amini in September 2022, rhetorical support and solidarity has poured out across Europe and the U.S. Rightly so. But symbolic virtue-signaling of support isn’t enough. We must also put meaningful pressure on the regime to change its behavior at home and abroad.

The civilized world must impose real costs on terrorists and those who support or condone them. There should be no haven for Iran’s agents of death. The West should reimpose extensive multilateral sanctions on Tehran and deny Iranian planes overflight rights. Impound the shipping vessels Iran uses to circumvent sanctions. Close Iranian banks with access to the West, and cease the Iranian operations of European businesses. Treat Iranian officials like pariahs and sink Iranian naval boats that threaten international shipping.

In the days and weeks ahead, the brave people of Israel will continue to reclaim their territory, rescue their countrymen, and mourn the innocent men, women and children the terrorists have slaughtered. They deserve the support of the free world, in both word and deed.



Mr. McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, is Senate minority leader.
JGKAMIN Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 05-08-2011
Posts: 1,405
And this is all from Mitch, the same guy that stands at a podium locked up and unable to move or speak?!?Think
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
JGKAMIN wrote:
And this is all from Mitch, the same guy that stands at a podium locked up and unable to move or speak?!?Think


Yup.

Biden Lite

Now, show me your war face!
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
JGKAMIN wrote:
And this is all from Mitch, the same guy that stands at a podium locked up and unable to move or speak?!?Think

He had a "senior moment" (at least) or two.
Enough where he should have to leave office, but not enough to totally negate his opinion on an issue.
Burner02 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
Anyone seen or heard from slow Joe since he put a lid on the day yesterday at 11:00 ET. Must have been a Rocky Road moment.

On another note, reports are that 40 dead babies, some decapitated were found in a liberated kibbutz. I pray that this is not true.
Stogie1020 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
^Unfortunately, looks like it is confirmed...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/40-babies-some-beheaded-found-israel-soldiers-hamas-attacked-village

"At least 40 babies, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers in Hamas-attacked village
IDF Major General Itai Veruv described the scene in Kfar Aza as 'a massacre'"
DrMaddVibe Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Anyone know how to get BBQ sauce stains out?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12608995/Biden-slammed-holding-BBQ-White-House-Hamas-holds-Americans-hostage-kills-four-surprise-attack-Israel-left-700-Israelis-dead-President-makes-NO-statement-day-assault.html
Stogie1020 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
Anyone who wants to find some level of sympathy for Hamas (looking at you AOC/Tlaib, Busch, etc.) needs to watch this interview. The guy (Raz Shmilovich) lives in a village in the south near where the penetrations took place.

Incidentally, Raz was my guide when I was in Israel. I spent all day nearly two weeks with him. Hearing him speak like this is a very large departure form the very diplomatic Raz I remember. Anytime a conversation got to a real us-vs-them moment, Raz would always say "it's complicated...". Doesn't seem too complicated right now.

Link: https://www.foxnews.com/video/6338696525112
RayR Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
Ain't no sympathy for Hamas here or their Demo-Commie Squad fans.
BuckyB93 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,216
I wouldn't shed a tear if Hamas and their supporters are wiped off the map.
Palama Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,723
BuckyB93 wrote:
I wouldn't shed a tear if Hamas and their supporters are wiped off the map.


Same here but with so much hate that goes back centuries, it’d be hard to imagine that even “wiping them off the map” would end things. There would always be someone out there that would find reason to hate and attack. It is a very sad world and time.
Stogie1020 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
Palama wrote:
Same here but with so much hate that goes back centuries, it’d be hard to imagine that even “wiping them off the map” would end things. There would always be someone out there that would find reason to hate and attack. It is a very sad world and time.

All you have to do is read the textbooks that are used in the "schools" in Gaza to know where it comes from.

Also, you pay for those books with your UN subscription...
Gene363 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
I say happy hunting to the IDF.

Two to the body and one to the head, keep it up 'till they are all dead.
Mr. Jones Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
Triple T.A.P....

THATS AN OLD OLD SOLUTION that works well.
rfenst Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
The only **potential** peace would require a two-state solution, but I seriously doubt that would change anything because Israel and the Palestinian people are dependent on Palestinian labor, from both Gaza and West Bank. And, without a two-state solution, Israel's Arab citizen-population will simply out-reproduce the population of Jews in Israel. It is just a matter of time. Death from within. Everyone knows it. Nevertheless, I seriously doubt the violence would stop based on a two-state solution due to lack of a single Palestinian leadership and centuries of taught, ingrained hatred. Palestinians were offered what they asked for once, with both sides making major concessions, but refused to ultimately accept it because it involved compromise- as opposed to the absolutism the seek.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
rfenst wrote:
The only **potential** solution would be a two-state peace, but I seriously doubt that would change anything. And, without a two-state solution, Israel's Arab citizen population will simply out-reproduce the population of Jews in Israel. It is just a matter of time. Death from within. Nevertheless, I seriously doubt the violence would stop based on a two-state solution due to centuries of taught, ingrained hatred.



Naw, I don't believe Bibi is going to consider that.

Nor should he.

It's time for the utter destruction of the terrorist organizations and those funding it. Total destruction. As much as I abhor war, sometimes it really is justified. This is one of those moments.

Anyone believing for a second that over 8 million people streaming across our own borders are doing so to pick lettuce needs to remember the moment when we were under attack on 9-11 and when Hamas attacked Israel. You cannot deal with terrorists. EVER.



8trackdisco Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
RobertHively wrote:
Why does the U.S. monetarily support any foreign war when we have a crumbling infrastructure, unsecure border and many citizens without basic needs met?

It's not like the U.S. has the money to do that either. The Federal Reserve prints the money out of thin air (crazy) and then loans it to the Federal Government with interest. Then the Federal Government sticks the citizens with the bill and calls it democracy.

So it doesn't matter if you're pro war or anti war, you're going to pay the bill. I say that's FUBAR.



+1

Was thinking maybe we'll spend our budget suprlus on a war.

I'm still waiting for our 7.7 trillion dollars back from the unnecessaary and fracturous war in Iraq. A war that deepended divisions and ended up sending Navy personnel into Fallujah. (Spoiler: There isn't any water there).
8trackdisco Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
My biggest question in all this is how Mossad & IDF could have been caught so flat footed.

Shin Bet too.

When I think of the best secret service and intel gatherers, I think of Isreal as #1.

Corruption? Double Agents? Willful Blindness?

Who benefits?

RayR Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
8trackdisco wrote:
My biggest question in all this is how Mossad & IDF could have been caught so flat footed.

Shin Bet too.

When I think of the best secret service and intel gatherers, I think of Isreal as #1.

Corruption? Double Agents? Willful Blindness?

Who benefits?



Could this have something to do with it?

Quote:
Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

Cairo official says Israel focused on West Bank instead of Gaza; Egypt’s spy chief said to warn PM of ‘terrible operation,’ Netanyahu denies it

Mounting questions over Israel’s massive intelligence failure to anticipate and prepare for a surprise Hamas assault were compounded Monday when an Egyptian intelligence official said that Jerusalem had ignored repeated warnings that the Gaza-based terror group was planning “something big” — which included an apparent direct notice from Cairo’s intelligence minister to the prime minister.

The Egyptian official said Egypt, which often serves as a mediator between Israel and Hamas, had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about “something big,” without elaborating.

More...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/

rfenst Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
8trackdisco wrote:
+1

Was thinking maybe we'll spend our budget suprlus on a war.

I'm still waiting for our 7.7 trillion dollars back from the unnecessaary and fracturous war in Iraq. A war that depended divisions and ended up sending Navy personnel into Fallujah. (Spoiler: There isn't any water there).

We should have taken enough of Iraq's oil (second-largest crude oil producer in OPEC after Saudi Arabia) to pay for the war and occupation.
ZRX1200 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Are they arming Ukrainians and Israelites with muskets?

I mean that’s all they should have right?

Just asking….you know. Consistency n stuff Mellow
KingoftheCove Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,644
The “Squad’s” call for Israel to show restraint and immediately begin a ceasefire and enter into negotiations is simply….
Fuqing….
Unbelievable….

It’s so disgusting, even that clownshow AOC backed off a little.
This will not end well…………….for anyone.
RayR Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
rfenst wrote:
We should have taken enough of Iraq's oil (second-largest crude oil producer in OPEC after Saudi Arabia) to pay for the war and occupation.


I didn't know that you were a neocon. Huh
So, you think unnecessary and fractious gubmint wars based on deception are cool as long as you can plunder the enemy to pay for them?

Don't you know that's never going to happen because it's much easier to plunder your own people as long as you tell them it's patriotic?
Gene363 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
KingoftheCove wrote:
The “Squad’s” call for Israel to show restraint and immediately begin a ceasefire and enter into negotiations is simply….
Fuqing….
Unbelievable….

It’s so disgusting, even that clownshow AOC backed off a little.
This will not end well…………….for anyone.


Of course they would, Hamass gets a free punch and Israel is supposed to be nice and take it. Instead, Israel should steam roll Hamas.
MACS Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Gene363 wrote:
Of course they would, Hamass gets a free punch and Israel is supposed to be nice and take it. Instead, Israel should steam roll Hamas.


100% agree. Flatten it. Absolutely flatten the sh*t out of it.
RayR Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
KingoftheCove wrote:
The “Squad’s” call for Israel to show restraint and immediately begin a ceasefire and enter into negotiations is simply….
Fuqing….
Unbelievable….

It’s so disgusting, even that clownshow AOC backed off a little.
This will not end well…………….for anyone.


So you say those lying commie biatches in the "Squad’ are suddenly backing off because the brutal reality of the carnage that they supported has come to light. I've heard supporting mass murder and butchery can be bad optics for a LEFTY reelection bid.


Now this Marxist is probably having second thoughts too about openly saying how he really feels deep inside.


Colorado Dem gives shocking response to Hamas savagery: ‘What about it?’

October 10, 2023 | Tom Tillison

Quote:
A video of Colorado State Rep. Tim Hernández (D) refusing to condemn Hamas savagery in Israel went viral after he suggested that only three people would see it.

With the death toll in Israel topping 1,000 and reported of dozens of babies being beheaded in one Israeli town, the video captures Hernández being asked to condemn women, children and elderly people being murdered in the street and he replied, “What about it?”

When pressed, he smiled and said, “I already gave you my answer.”

Colorado State Rep @_timhernandez refuses to condemn the rape and murder of women, the slaughtering of over 900 innocent men, women, and children, and hundreds of innocent people including Americans taken hostage by terrorists pic.twitter.com/ZDw9LZDk6U

— Chaya Raichik (@ChayaRaichik10) October 10, 2023

But it gets worse, according to Jimmy Sengenberger, a columnist for The Gazette:

Meanwhile, revolutionary Colorado State Rep. Tim Hernández — a Marxist who’s refused to denounce political violence — chose to side with Hamas.

He liked a tweet from the Colorado Palestinian Coalition that promoted an “EMERGENCY PROTEST FOR PALESTINIAN RESISTANCE” — in which he later participated — and reposted tweets implying Hamas was merely “fighting back against occupation.” (He later unshared them.)

The Marxist label is not just name-calling — Americans have much to learn about well-entrenched radical revolutionaries who are in this country.

Hernández was a Marxist teacher who called for a “FORCEFUL Cultural Revolution” against “Whiteness” when Democrats elected him to fill an open state House seat in August, according to Fox News.

Sengenberger noted Hernández’s history of antisemitism and called on the Colorado Democratic Party to “publicly denounce and condemn their own Democratic state representative for endorsing terrorism and bigotry.”

“Let’s be honest: Hernández and those like him have chosen to defend massacres, rapes and abductions of civilians, including women and little children,” the columnist concluded. “These views demand clear, unequivocal, decisive rejection. As Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, ‘In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.'”

The radical Democrat released a carefully worded statement in an apparent weak attempt at damage control.

More...

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/10/10/colorado-dem-gives-shocking-response-to-hamas-savagery-what-about-it-1403186/
ZRX1200 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Just a reminder.

Ilhan Omar married her brother.
rfenst Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
U.S. to Hold Off on Disbursing $6 Billion in Iran Oil Revenue Unfrozen in Prisoner Deal

Decision with Qatar, which oversees the funds, comes amid concern for Tehran’s support for Hamas


WSJ

The U.S. and Qatar have agreed to deny Iran access to $6 billion in oil proceeds that Washington had previously freed up as part of a prisoner swap reached last month, according to people familiar with the matter.

The decision with Qatar, whose government is overseeing Iran’s access to the funds, comes amid concern for Tehran’s long-running provision of money, arms and intelligence to the group responsible for the terrorist attack on Israel last weekend, Hamas.

According to a preliminary unclassified assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies, Tehran likely knew Hamas was planning operations against Israel but didn’t know the precise timing or scope of the surprise attack.

The funds are sitting in a restricted bank account in Qatar, and the U.S. has struck an informal agreement with Qatar to hold off disbursing them to Iran, the people familiar with the matter said.

Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo described the arrangement in a meeting with senior House Democrats on Thursday.

Biden administration officials have repeatedly said the money was already tightly restricted, adding that Iranians haven’t actually used any of it yet.

“Freezing the money is a good step,” said Rep. Brad Sherman, a California Democrat and senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, who was briefed on the matter after Adeyemo’s meeting.

Neither the Qatari embassy in Washington nor Iran’s mission to the United Nations immediately respond to a request for comment.

The assets, the proceeds of oil sales to South Korea, were frozen as part of an economywide sanctions program the U.S. levied against Iran after the Trump administration withdrew the U.S. from an international deal limiting Iran’s nuclear program.

As part of the prisoner swap, the U.S. last month agreed to release $6 billion in Iranian funds held in restricted accounts in South Korea to restricted accounts in Qatar, for humanitarian use only by Tehran.

“We have strict oversight of the funds, and we retain the right to freeze them,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said amid meetings with Israeli officials in Tel Aviv.

Sherman, who has long advocated stronger sanctions against Iran, said he understood the agreement with the Qataris as a temporary arrangement, but said Iran’s support for Hamas should rule out giving it access in the future. “Sending it back to South Korean banks would be the final step,” he said.

Iran’s clerical regime has called for the destruction of Israel, and Tehran has financed and armed Hamas and other militant groups in the region.

Since the attacks, Republicans and some Democrats have called for the $6 billion to be frozen again.

“Iran has a long and storied track record of malign behavior and supporting terrorism worldwide, including Hamas and Hezbollah,” said Rep. Ruben Gallego (D., Ariz.).“Our ally Israel is at war, and while the conflict continues, we must stand united.”




Once it was decided to release the funds, that should have been part of the original agreement.

rfenst Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Hamas Explains How They Did It

'We made them think that Hamas was busy with governing Gaza,’ says a senior official.'


WSJ Editorial Board

The leaders of Hamas are delighted by their murderous handiwork, and in a remarkable interview on Sunday a senior Hamas official explained how they did it.

“In the past couple of years, Hamas has adopted a ‘rational’ approach. It did not go into any war, and did not join the Islamic Jihad in its recent battle,” Ali Baraka said in an interview that ran on Russia Today and was translated by Memri. “We made them think that Hamas was busy with governing Gaza, and that it wanted to focus on the 2.5 million Palestinians there, and has abandoned the resistance altogether. All the while, under the table, Hamas was preparing for this big attack.”

There you have it. Hamas presented the illusion that it cared about Palestinians in order to dupe Israel into putting its guard down. Then it pursued its main ambition, which is to kill as many Jews as possible.

Ali Baraka also said that Hamas has a license from Russia to produce Kalashnikov bullets and that Russia is sympathetic to Hamas and likes the war with Israel because it complicates U.S. aid for Ukraine. Oh, and Hamas will insist on a prisoner swap of American hostages for Hamas fighters in U.S. jails. When your enemies tell you that they want to kill you, believe them.
Gene363 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
rfenst wrote:
My 18-year old niece is studying in Jerusalem for a year and cannot get out due to limited flights. My brother even tried to rent a private plane to fly her out to the nearest airport that has regular service to NYC, but icouldn't due to air restrictions. We are sick with anxiety.



Pray for quick and safe return.
rfenst Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
The Moral Duty to Destroy Hamas

Israel is entitled to do whatever it takes to uproot this evil, depraved culture that resides next to it.


Opinion: WSJ

A mob of Islamist Arabs incited by Jew-hatred entered the town and killed as many Jews as they could find. They went door to door, broke into the homes of their victims, and slaughtered innocent men, women and children. These gangs raped, mutilated and tortured them while screaming “Kill the Jews!”

That was 94 years ago, on Saturday, Aug. 24, 1929, in Hebron. The picture is essentially the same, only that then the Arab riots that included this massacre ended with 133 Jews murdered. This time, it is several times as many, and we don’t know the final figure.

Given that the events are virtually the same, the question is: Why? There was no state of Israel in 1929. There were no “occupied” territories, no “settlers.” There was no “blockade.” No security fence, no checkpoints, nothing. If the excuses of today’s murderers did not exist at that time, what did exist? A deep, maniacal, murderous and utterly destructive hatred of Jews—the same essential factor operating today, to which all other excuses are subservient.


It has been the policy of the state of Israel not to show what its enemies do to its citizens. That both kept the victims’ dignity and prevented the demoralization of Israelis. But it also avoided letting the world see clearly what kind of threat Israelis were dealing with. What kind of true evil they are fighting against. Now that is clear. The videos showing mass murder; the kidnapping of children, elderly and women; the storming of a music festival to shoot and kill whatever person they could find; and the stories of rape, execution and utter destruction are there for the world to see.

These images and videos were propagated by the assassins themselves. They use them to show their strength and prove Israeli weakness. To demonstrate to the Palestinian Arab population that the Jews can be killed like flies. What does it say of a society that these monsters think this type of “propaganda” is a “good” way to mobilize the population? It screams of a deeply perverse and murderous culture, in love with death and destruction. It is the same culture that teaches toddlers to hate. The same society that pays wages to mass murderers and celebrates on the streets with sweets and shootings when Jews get killed. It is the culture that creates the types of monsters capable of the evil they themselves proudly show to the world through social media.

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!” chant the useful idiots at elite institutions and parades in the West. Who are these people? Atheists who support theocratic lunatics, democrats who endorse medieval tyrants, feminists who defend misogynists who parade with the desecrated corpses of women, gays who defend maniacs who would joyfully hang them or toss them off the roof of a tall building. They talk of a secular, democratic and socialist Palestine. As George Orwell observed: “One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.” But the world has now seen what “from the river to the sea” actually means. It is nothing less than a remake of the Nazi Einsatzgruppen.

Israel expelled its own population from Gaza in 2005 so that Palestinian Arabs could begin building their own state. They instead chose Hamas. The enemies of Israel aren’t in favor of a Palestinian state. They aren’t in favor of anything positive, but only of a negative: the denial of life, especially of Jewish life. The goal is genocide. The method is mass murder of the type Jews haven’t experienced since the Holocaust.

Hence, the West needs to understand that to defend human life and dignity, it isn’t enough to claim to side with Israel. It needs to understand what this means: total, unrestrictive support. That is nothing less than allowing this beleaguered country to defend itself fully. To recognize that Hamas needs to be destroyed for the same reason and by the same method that the Nazis were. Israel is entitled to do whatever it takes to uproot this evil residing next to it. And, more important, that once it begins to proceed in that direction, it won’t be demonized for defending that which is the core of Western civilization and which its enemies hate the most: the love of everyone’s right to human life, dignity and happiness.

In other words, it needs to support a complete, total and decisive Israeli victory. If this implies an overwhelming, unprecedented use of military force, so be it. Hamas is and will be responsible for any civilian casualties. Cause and effect. They created their own destruction, and its consequences.

Mere victory isn’t enough. Israel has won every war it has ever fought. This time, the triumph must be so thorough and conclusive that there will never be any other war for this country. Israel has a moral right to finish the job, and the West has a moral duty to support it. Let Israel do what it must to finish this war in the fastest way possible, with the minimum civilian and military casualties on its side. The consequences of this lie on the group that initiated the causal sequence—the one that must be completely destroyed, Hamas.




Messrs. Block and Futerman are the co-authors of “The Classical Liberal Case for Israel.”
8trackdisco Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
KingoftheCove wrote:
The “Squad’s” call for Israel to show restraint and immediately begin a ceasefire and enter into negotiations is simply….
Fuqing….
Unbelievable….

It’s so disgusting, even that clownshow AOC backed off a little.
This will not end well…………….for anyone.



It is a blessing for the right. Finally, the Dems are getting some egg on their faces and shows at least a fraction of the disunity the Republicans have had on display. Feel for Israel and its people. And compassion for poor Palestinians who don't follow what Hamas is about. Peeling back all the layers to that onion is way above my paygrade (then again, I'm clearing less now than mR, joNeS).
DrMaddVibe Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
8trackdisco wrote:
It is a blessing for the right. Finally, the Dems are getting some egg on their faces and shows at least a fraction of the disunity the Republicans have had on display. Feel for Israel and its people. And compassion for poor Palestinians who don't follow what Hamas is about. Peeling back all the layers to that onion is way above my paygrade (then again, I'm clearing less now than mR, joNeS).


Naw, not buying what Hamas is selling. Hiding behind daycares and women while the useful idiots wave their arms in jubilation every time they poke Israel. Done even pretending I care about them...why? Yasser Arafat. That's why. Their lives didn't change then and despite the BILLIONS poured into that Baltimore on steroids...it NEVER will!

Let Israel clean up their mess and wipe out this "2 state solution" forever. They're evil people blinded by hate and that's all they've ever known. Reread the article above. Never gonna change. Let's try something different though, let them destroy everything, bulldoze it into the ocean and let them have free reign to develop that in their image.
8trackdisco Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Naw, not buying what Hamas is selling. Hiding behind daycares and women while the useful idiots wave their arms in jubilation every time they poke Israel. Done even pretending I care about them...why? Yasser Arafat. That's why. Their lives didn't change then and despite the BILLIONS poured into that Baltimore on steroids...it NEVER will!

Let Israel clean up their mess and wipe out this "2 state solution" forever. They're evil people blinded by hate and that's all they've ever known. Reread the article above. Never gonna change. Let's try something different though, let them destroy everything, bulldoze it into the ocean and let them have free reign to develop that in their image.


Do you believe that every Palestinian in Gaza supports Hamas? Not possible. There are people there just trying to get by one day to the next. They aren’t all evil.

It’s like saying because NYC is full of moderate to fully liberal Democrats, so the twin towers coming down isn’t a big deal. They were all socialists, communists and free speech haters anyway.

I don’t buy that either.
8trackdisco Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
I did chuckle at Baltimore on Steroids.
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