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What’s up with the Southern Baptists?
Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
As I understand things as far as a Southern Baptist is concerned the Bible is infallible. So I’m trying to figure out what part of the Bible teaches that it is ok to judge others. I mention Southern Baptist because it has been my experience that those are the only people whom I heard judge others.

Here’s a bit of context to explain the reason for this post. I was looking on Facebook earlier and I saw a post regarding Catholicism being a cult and how Catholics are all condemned to Hell. Of course the person who posted this is proud of his association with the Southern Baptist sect of Christianity.

Having been raised Catholic, though I must confess I haven’t seen the inside of a church more than a handful of times in the last 40 years, I know a thing or two about the religion. So I find it truly comical when people like this person get on their soapbox and profess to know what may or may not happen to Catholics come “judgement day”.

Carry on.
MACS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Yeah. Went to a baptist church as a kid, sporadically. Judgy and preachy.

We all fall short. I don't need anyone reminding me, thanks. I'll carry my burdens, you carry yours... ya know? fog
Gene363 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
Gang membership confirmation, they love those litmus tests, you fall, they judge. As I recall, judgement is reserved for the Big Guy, but I'm no religious scholar.

Interesting thing about Baptist, get four of them together and there is bound to be a fifth. Whistle
MACS Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Which Big Guy? Hunter Biden's dad or Jesus'?
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
Interesting article: https://www.exploregod.com/articles/why-are-christians-so-judgmental

I got tag teamed by two Southern Baptists that took exception to me saying I was a Frisbeetarian,

"Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck."

I told them, "Assuming there is a heaven, you're going to be really surprised when there are Cathiolics, Hindu, Buddhist, Presbyterian, Mormon, etc, etc, etc." At that point they started acting like they were speaking to Old Scratch. Speak to the hand
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
MACS wrote:
Which Big Guy? Hunter Biden's dad or Jesus'?


Unfortunately some people would not know. Brick wall
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Gene363 wrote:
Gang membership confirmation, they love those litmus tests, you fall, they judge. As I recall, judgement is reserved for the Big Guy, but I'm no religious scholar.

Interesting thing about Baptist, get four of them together and there is bound to be a fifth. Whistle

Wait!
Every Independence Day I have a fifth for the fourth...am I a Baptist?
Takes a FOG to see what you did there.

pretty sure that MIA but good guy MattieB is a member.

We had a few c-bid style gift exchanges and stuff many many years ago, and out of the blue he popped up to offer his knowledge of Key West when he heard my daughter is getting married there in a few months...it's just more reason to believe that magic happens here.

I prefer to size up the character of the individual rather than the club to which they belong...though often there is no separation
BuckyB93 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,216
When I was raised, us kids went to church every Sunday with my Mom. My Dad was a Lutheran. He believes in the Christian faith but didn't go to church too often. My Mom is a follower of Christian Science. So was my grandmother but neither of went to the extreme end that you might read about. Christian Science follows the Bible and the teachings of Marry Baker Eddy and her book called Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. My Mom is still active in her church (organizer and book keeper) and their reading room

Both are good readings. I cannot repeat any of it word by word but I like to think that I follow those readings and teachings in my daily life as best I can as a human. Are Catholics better than Lutherans better than Baptistist better than better than Christian Science better than Mormans better than Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islamics and so on?

I would say no. As frank said it comes down to the individual character of the person and not the club that they belong (or chose to claim they belong) to.

I'm not an official member of any church or specific faith or any organized religion but I consider myself a Christian and I do believe in a higher power, who I chose to call God, and his son Jesus.
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
Gene363 wrote:
Interesting article: https://www.exploregod.com/articles/why-are-christians-so-judgmental

I got tag teamed by two Southern Baptists that took exception to me saying I was a Frisbeetarian,

"Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck."

I told them, "Assuming there is a heaven, you're going to be really surprised when there are Cathiolics, Hindu, Buddhist, Presbyterian, Mormon, etc, etc, etc." At that point they started acting like they were speaking to Old Scratch. Speak to the hand


I like that and I’m stealing it.

Abrignac Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
Pretty much consensus expected. Not that I really GAF about what the proselytizers think. I can run circles around many of their arguments. But, that’s a topic for another day, time and place.
Gene363 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
frankj1 wrote:
Wait!
Every Independence Day I have a fifth for the fourth...am I a Baptist?
Takes a FOG to see what you did there.

pretty sure that MIA but good guy MattieB is a member.

We had a few c-bid style gift exchanges and stuff many many years ago, and out of the blue he popped up to offer his knowledge of Key West when he heard my daughter is getting married there in a few months...it's just more reason to believe that magic happens here.

I prefer to size up the character of the individual rather than the club to which they belong...though often there is no separation


I'm a gentile, but I'm pretty sure your kosher on the fifth, any other day, well I just don't know.
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Gene363 wrote:
I'm a gentile, but I'm pretty sure your kosher on the fifth, any other day, well I just don't know.

works for me!
Abrignac Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
frankj1 wrote:
Wait!
Every Independence Day I have a fifth for the fourth...am I a Baptist?
Takes a FOG to see what you did there.

pretty sure that MIA but good guy MattieB is a member.

We had a few c-bid style gift exchanges and stuff many many years ago, and out of the blue he popped up to offer his knowledge of Key West when he heard my daughter is getting married there in a few months...it's just more reason to believe that magic happens here.

I prefer to size up the character of the individual rather than the club to which they belong...though often there is no separation


I’ll take character over club every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
We have a local Christian Fellowship that is the worst with the judgement stuff. I had an employee under me which was hired without my consent (I always did my department interviews before then) and he belonged to that church.

I fielded multiple calls about him verbally berating customers about various thing. Which led to verbally counseling and documenting, all of which he largely ignored. Then he proceeds one day to tell me on a ride a long I had to do with him that he had a men’s group that met 3 times a week. And on the Wednesday men’s group they split into splinter groups where those splinter groups learned how to discuss “what was wrong” about the religions they were assigned in their groups.

I asked him where the line was with proselytizing and being a good Christian were, he didn’t even understand the question.
Gene363 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
ZRX1200 wrote:
We have a local Christian Fellowship that is the worst with the judgement stuff. I had an employee under me which was hired without my consent (I always did my department interviews before then) and he belonged to that church.

I fielded multiple calls about him verbally berating customers about various thing. Which led to verbally counseling and documenting, all of which he largely ignored. Then he proceeds one day to tell me on a ride a long I had to do with him that he had a men’s group that met 3 times a week. And on the Wednesday men’s group they split into splinter groups where those splinter groups learned how to discuss “what was wrong” about the religions they were assigned in their groups.

I asked him where the line was with proselytizing and being a good Christian were, he didn’t even understand the question.


The basis for companies not allowing religious or political discussions/symbols etc., are quite sound, too many people just cannot control themselves.

Sometimes it's the religion, Jehovah Witness are not supposed to fraternize with non JW people, we had a contractor that was a JW, he good worker and you could tell he wanted to be part of the working group but just could not.
Gene363 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
frankj1 wrote:
...I prefer to size up the character of the individual rather than the club to which they belong...though often there is no separation


Agree +2
deadeyedick Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,117
While I was raised going to one particular church, I am not a member of any organized religion and find they all have their fair share of hypocrisy.

That being said, to come on a discount cigar site and complain about any religion is shall we say ..... ill-advised.
DrafterX Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
That's me in da corner.... Mellow
MACS Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
DrafterX wrote:
That's me in da corner.... Mellow


Is dat you in da spot... light... losing your religion?
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I’m pretty sure CROS found HayZeus on this forum.

That was before he was taken from us.
delta1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
that bastid CROS!!!
Sunoverbeach Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,672
Dad's side of the family was Catholic. Mom raised us Lutheran a.k.a Catholic Lite. Visited services of Baptists, Mennonite, and Methodists, went to temple once, and prolly a couple others I've forgotten. I've found that regardless of religious denomination, the more vocal someone us about their devotion, the more likely they are to be a judgemental chit
rfenst Online
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Gene363 wrote:
... Jehovah Witness are not supposed to fraternize with non JW people....

There is a large contingency of JW in Orlando. I worked closely with JW and have probably represented around ten JW. I don't think that holds true for any of those I have met.
rfenst Online
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Abrignac wrote:
I’ll take character over club every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

+3
Gene363 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
rfenst wrote:
There is a large contingency of JW in Orlando. I worked closely with JW and have probably represented around ten JW. I don't think that holds true for any of those I have met.


Your magnetic personality and legal expertise won them over.
Whistlebritches Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
While I'm affiliated with no organized religions........ I am a believer and a follower of the King James version of The Holy Bible.Raised a Baptist,switched at marriage to Lutheran,currently an occasional attendee at the Church of Christ,what little family I have left and many friends also attend there.

You need only remember these scriptures

Romans 3:23

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

John 8:7 paraphrased

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone
delta1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
don't need to be religious in any framework, or to read the Bible, to understand the wisdom of those directives...the Golden Rule belongs among those two.
8trackdisco Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
If you really want to see people throwing judgment around, may I refer you to the Politics forum.
MACS Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
8trackdisco wrote:
If you really want to see people throwing judgment around, may I refer you to the Politics forum.


LOL
Gene363 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
8trackdisco wrote:
If you really want to see people throwing judgment around, may I refer you to the Politics forum.



True! Frying pan
tonygraz Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
Born to Catholic parents and spend 4 years in Catholic school, I have a negative view of religion. THere are many versions of the bible and some of it is left out of most of them. In college I attended just about every church there was and only found one that was palatable in one of it's Unitarian sects. Religion was and still is an attempt to control the masses. I have been a minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for the past several years and it has it's own Bible. The JW's have stopped coming around since I started preaching to them and trying to get them to convert.

Why did Drafter have to go into the corner ?
8trackdisco Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
tonygraz wrote:
Born to Catholic parents and spend 4 years in Catholic school, I have a negative view of religion. THere are many versions of the bible and some of it is left out of most of them. In college I attended just about every church there was and only found one that was palatable in one of it's Unitarian sects. Religion was and still is an attempt to control the masses. I have been a minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for the past several years and it has it's own Bible. The JW's have stopped coming around since I started preaching to them and trying to get them to convert.

Why did Drafter have to go into the corner ?


Don’t agree with the church trying to control. My perspective is they are organization designed to provide hope and solace. With a notable exception in the Church of Scientology.
Abrignac Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
Seems to me that……oh never mind…..

Do have a question though. If God created man on day 6, how did man know what happened on days 1-5?

Back to regularly scheduled programming.
Gene363 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
Abrignac wrote:
Seems to me that……oh never mind…..

Do have a question though. If God created man on day 6, how did man know what happened on days 1-5?

Back to regularly scheduled programming.


And why are Adam and Eve depicted with belly buttons?
tonygraz Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
Abrignac wrote:
…..

If God created man on day 6, how did man know what happened on days 1-5?

Back to regularly scheduled programming.


Damn good question!
MACS Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Do you believe that good and evil exist?

The answer to this question separates Judeo-Christian values from secular values.

Let me offer the clearest possible example: murder.

Is murder wrong? Is it evil? Nearly everyone would answer yes. But now I’ll pose a much harder question: How do you know?

I am sure that you think that murder is wrong. But how do you know?

If I asked you how you know that that the earth is round, you would show me photographs from outer space, or offer me measurable data. But what photographs could you show, what measurements could you provide, that prove that murder or rape or theft is wrong?

The fact is...you can’t. There are scientific facts, but without God there are no moral facts.

In a secular world, there can only be opinions about morality. They may be personal opinions or society’s opinion. But only opinions. Every atheist philosopher I have read or debated on this subject has acknowledged that if there is no God, there is no objective morality.

Judeo-Christian values are predicated on the existence of a God of morality. In other words, only if there is a God who says murder is wrong, is murder wrong. Otherwise, all morality is opinion.

The entire Western world – what we call Western Civilization – is based on this understanding.

Now, let me make two things clear.

First, this doesn't mean that if you don't believe in God, you can’t be a good person. There are plenty of kind and moral individuals who don’t believe in God and Judeo-Christian values. But the existence of these good people has nothing – nothing – to do with the question of whether good and evil really exist if there is no God.

Second, there have been plenty of people who believed in God who were not good people; indeed, more than a few have been evil – and have even committed evil in God’s name. The existence of God doesn't ensure people will do good. I wish it did. The existence of God only ensures that good and evil objectively exist and are not merely opinions.

Without God, we therefore end up with what is known as moral relativism – meaning that morality is not absolute, but only relative to the individual or to the society. Without God, the words “good” and “evil” are just another way of saying “I like” and “I don’t like.” If there is no God, the statement “Murder is evil” is the same as the statement “I don't like murder.”

Now, many will argue that you don't need moral absolutes; people won’t murder because they don't want to be murdered. But that argument is just wishful thinking. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao didn’t want to be murdered, but that hardly stopped them from murdering about a hundred million people.

It is not a coincidence that the rejection of Judeo-Christian values in the Western world – by Nazism and Communism – led to the murder of all these innocent people.

It is also not a coincidence that the first societies in the world to abolish slavery – an institution that existed in every known society in human history – were Western societies rooted in Judeo-Christian values. And so were the first societies to affirm universal human rights; to emancipate women; and to proclaim the value of liberty.

Today, the rejection of Judeo-Christian values and moral absolutes has led to a world of moral confusion.

In the New York Times, in March 2015, a professor of philosophy confirmed this.

He wrote: “What would you say if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that it’s wrong to kill people for fun? Would you be surprised? I was.”

The professor then added: “The overwhelming majority of college freshmen view moral claims as mere opinions.”

So, then, whatever you believe about God or religion, here is a fact:

Without a God who is the source of morality, morality is just a matter of opinion. So, if you want a good world, the death of Judeo-Christian values should frighten you.
Whistlebritches Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
MACS wrote:
Do you believe that good and evil exist?

The answer to this question separates Judeo-Christian values from secular values.

Let me offer the clearest possible example: murder.

Is murder wrong? Is it evil? Nearly everyone would answer yes. But now I’ll pose a much harder question: How do you know?

I am sure that you think that murder is wrong. But how do you know?

If I asked you how you know that that the earth is round, you would show me photographs from outer space, or offer me measurable data. But what photographs could you show, what measurements could you provide, that prove that murder or rape or theft is wrong?

The fact is...you can’t. There are scientific facts, but without God there are no moral facts.

In a secular world, there can only be opinions about morality. They may be personal opinions or society’s opinion. But only opinions. Every atheist philosopher I have read or debated on this subject has acknowledged that if there is no God, there is no objective morality.

Judeo-Christian values are predicated on the existence of a God of morality. In other words, only if there is a God who says murder is wrong, is murder wrong. Otherwise, all morality is opinion.

The entire Western world – what we call Western Civilization – is based on this understanding.

Now, let me make two things clear.

First, this doesn't mean that if you don't believe in God, you can’t be a good person. There are plenty of kind and moral individuals who don’t believe in God and Judeo-Christian values. But the existence of these good people has nothing – nothing – to do with the question of whether good and evil really exist if there is no God.

Second, there have been plenty of people who believed in God who were not good people; indeed, more than a few have been evil – and have even committed evil in God’s name. The existence of God doesn't ensure people will do good. I wish it did. The existence of God only ensures that good and evil objectively exist and are not merely opinions.

Without God, we therefore end up with what is known as moral relativism – meaning that morality is not absolute, but only relative to the individual or to the society. Without God, the words “good” and “evil” are just another way of saying “I like” and “I don’t like.” If there is no God, the statement “Murder is evil” is the same as the statement “I don't like murder.”

Now, many will argue that you don't need moral absolutes; people won’t murder because they don't want to be murdered. But that argument is just wishful thinking. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao didn’t want to be murdered, but that hardly stopped them from murdering about a hundred million people.

It is not a coincidence that the rejection of Judeo-Christian values in the Western world – by Nazism and Communism – led to the murder of all these innocent people.

It is also not a coincidence that the first societies in the world to abolish slavery – an institution that existed in every known society in human history – were Western societies rooted in Judeo-Christian values. And so were the first societies to affirm universal human rights; to emancipate women; and to proclaim the value of liberty.

Today, the rejection of Judeo-Christian values and moral absolutes has led to a world of moral confusion.

In the New York Times, in March 2015, a professor of philosophy confirmed this.

He wrote: “What would you say if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that it’s wrong to kill people for fun? Would you be surprised? I was.”

The professor then added: “The overwhelming majority of college freshmen view moral claims as mere opinions.”

So, then, whatever you believe about God or religion, here is a fact:

Without a God who is the source of morality, morality is just a matter of opinion. So, if you want a good world, the death of Judeo-Christian values should frighten you.


Well said and.......AMEN
Speyside2 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,407
MACS, well thought out, stated, and the truth.
delta1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
the United States of America was a Judeo-Christian nation when the Indian Removal Act was passed, when slavery was an accepted labor model, when citizens were stripped of their property and liberty and imprisoned because of their nationality, and then more recently, when Separate but "Equal" was practiced...

we are still a Judeo Christian nation, but agents of the government continue to commit evil acts upon citizens, (for fun?) as was done to George Floyd
RayR Online
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
delta1 wrote:
the United States of America was a Judeo-Christian nation when the Indian Removal Act was passed, when slavery was an accepted labor model, when citizens were stripped of their property and liberty and imprisoned because of their nationality, and then more recently, when Separate but "Equal" was practiced...

we are still a Judeo Christian nation, but agents of the government continue to commit evil acts upon citizens, (for fun?) as was done to George Floyd


I see where this is going, you are gonna give us some Kamala Harris history lessons aren't you? Bored
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
delta1 wrote:
the United States of America was a Judeo-Christian nation when the Indian Removal Act was passed, when slavery was an accepted labor model, when citizens were stripped of their property and liberty and imprisoned because of their nationality, and then more recently, when Separate but "Equal" was practiced...

we are still a Judeo Christian nation, but agents of the government continue to commit evil acts upon citizens, (for fun?) as was done to George Floyd



That stuff was all done by Judeo Christian democrats.
RayR Online
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
HockeyDad wrote:
That stuff was all done by Judeo Christian democrats.


That's not totally fair HD to simply put all the blame on one political faction or religion when most Americans shared what the LEFTIES call feeling of "white supremacy" today. Let's just say DUHMACRACY DONE THAT.



frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
call a white supremacist a liberal to his face and get yours rearranged
RayR Online
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,918
frankj1 wrote:
call a white supremacist a liberal to his face and get yours rearranged


OH, I'm so scared of Left Liberals! Scared

Left Liberals turned "white supremacy." into a meaningless phrase that means anything they don't like, it's just something they use to convey a deep-seated hatred for anyone who doesn't vote for radical Democrats.
HockeyDad Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
frankj1 wrote:
call a white supremacist a liberal to his face and get yours rearranged


Oh right. Joe Biden’s gonna punch someone.
Abrignac Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
delta1 wrote:
the United States of America was a Judeo-Christian nation when the Indian Removal Act was passed, when slavery was an accepted labor model, when citizens were stripped of their property and liberty and imprisoned because of their nationality, and then more recently, when Separate but "Equal" was practiced...

we are still a Judeo Christian nation, but agents of the government continue to commit evil acts upon citizens, (for fun?) as was done to George Floyd


You do realize this is NOT the politics forum? See what you did? You brought that babbling idiot Ray to the party. Can’t see what he posted, but I’m sure it’s the same old drivel that caused me to mute him.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Abrignac wrote:
You do realize this is NOT the politics forum? See what you did? You brought that babbling idiot Ray to the party. Can’t see what he posted, but I’m sure it’s the same old drivel that caused me to mute him.


Now you can.

RayR wrote:
OH, I'm so scared of Left Liberals! Scared

Left Liberals turned "white supremacy." into a meaningless phrase that means anything they don't like, it's just something they use to convey a deep-seated hatred for anyone who doesn't vote for radical Democrats.

Abrignac Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,313
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Now you can.




Like a wet dream, you can pretty much f*** anything up.
Brewha Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him.

- Voltaire
MACS Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Speyside2 wrote:
MACS, well thought out, stated, and the truth.


Those are not my words. I borrowed them from someone else.
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