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Last post 3 months ago by RayR. 37 replies replies.
Poll Question : The Future of the United States?
Choice Votes Statistics
Civil War 3 20 %
Balkanization 0 0 %
Continued Separation Through Migration 0 0 %
Reconciliation and Prosperity 1 6 %
Collapse Without Major Conflict 0 0 %
A Combination of Several of Those 8 53 %
Other 3 20 %
Total 15 100%

The Future of the United States
RobertHively Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,844
What you guys think?

I think continued separation that may lead to Balkanization.

If that's the case will the Federal Government allow that? They didn't in 1860.
RayR Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
Could be. Or complete fiscal collapse will lead to the succession of states from the Union like what happened to the Soviet Union. Texas would probably be the first.

The Union Federals will call that kind of political self-determination an insurrection, a rebellion, and treason. They'll claim succession is illegal like Lincoln did although that is false since no state during the founding would have joined the compact if they couldn't back out if things went sour.
The first states to meet and advocate for succession were Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Vermont back in 1814 although they ultimately chose against it. Nobody thought secession was illegal back then.

frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Succession won a ton of Emmy Awards...well deserved too.
RayR Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
frankj1 wrote:
Succession won a ton of Emmy Awards...well deserved too.


Eh?
deadeyedick Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,097
How about the Feds doing only what the constitution says they are responsible for?

No, that'll never work.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
deadeyedick wrote:
How about the Feds doing only what the constitution says they are responsible for?

No, that'll never work.


First they have to know the Constitution!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VHZZ5FYRM4
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Native Americans will take it back.... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,440
deadeyedick wrote:
How about the Feds doing only what the constitution says they are responsible for?

No, that'll never work.


Well, it was a nice run.
Mr. Jones Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,425
We send TRUMP AND BIDEN to a
"DARK SITE" in Belarus...pick new nominees for November who have brains and are no older than 50...
Close the border with the national guard...
Lower taxes on the middle class..
Raise taxes on RICH ELITES...
CONGRESSIONAL HEARING INVESTIGATING THE F.B.I.
for the last F.O.U.R. DIRECTORS...THEN put them all in jail
Save the earth from climate change by forcing the illuminate and MJ-12 to give up alien technology to heat and power homes FOR FREE, HYDROGEN
POWERED CARS AND AIRPLANES...

A TALL ORDER

BUT DO-ABLE
MACS Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,789
If we get a few more mothers like this one at school board meetings, it'll get better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9Z3Nuh_5c
8trackdisco Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,078
Easiest answer is a combination. However, I selected Civil War with a minor in Balkanization. Don't know what the flavor of that war will be.

Anti Fascists vs Far Right
Socialist vs Fascists.
Illegals, Drug Cartels, & Socialsts vs Moderates, and those right of Moderates.

Four years ago the favorite would have been some level of Race War. Now if feels more likely to be a Class War. That would be a complicated, blurred mess of alliances.

We have to deal with the Sugar (Coke vs Pepsi) War first.

Cool question.

Gene363 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,819
MACS wrote:
If we get a few more mothers like this one at school board meetings, it'll get better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9Z3Nuh_5c


Applause Applause Applause

Her point about "democracy" was excellent!
RayR Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
deadeyedick wrote:
How about the Feds doing only what the constitution says they are responsible for?

No, that'll never work.


“A written constitution certainly has many and considerable advantages; but it is a great mistake to suppose, that the mere insertion of provisions to restrict and limit the powers of the government, without investing those for whose protection they are inserted with the means of enforcing their observance, will be sufficient to prevent the major and dominant party from abusing its powers.” – John C. Calhoun

In other words, those words in the Constitution limiting the power of the government will be inadequate in protecting the states and the people from the major and dominant party from running amuck and doing unconstitutional things without mechanisms for the states and the people to pushback and recover their rights and liberties back from the usurpers.
MACS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,789
I think the "civil war" might be more of the states vs feds kinda thing. Bad news for the feds since most military folks will have a lot more allegiance to their families and their states than they will the feds... so that'll be over right quick when 75% of the feds military manpower revolts.

Biden admin has made illegal immigration a million times worse than it's ever been and now the states are sick and f'n tired of it. It ain't just Texas, either.
Cheno Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-06-2019
Posts: 1,989
It will be ugly no matter what happens
Brewha Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
8trackdisco wrote:
Easiest answer is a combination. However, I selected Civil War with a minor in Balkanization. Don't know what the flavor of that war will be.

Anti Fascists vs Far Right
Socialist vs Fascists.
Illegals, Drug Cartels, & Socialsts vs Moderates, and those right of Moderates.

Four years ago the favorite would have been some level of Race War. Now if feels more likely to be a Class War. That would be a complicated, blurred mess of alliances.

We have to deal with the Sugar (Coke vs Pepsi) War first.

Cool question.



Scary - remember the carnage of the Pancake vs Waffles War.
Brewha Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
Native Americans will take it back.... Mellow

We should give it back. They would do a better job….
RayR Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
Brewha wrote:
We should give it back. They would do a better job….


I heard they'll scalp white men driving EV's
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
other-

we'll be fine.
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,614
I have a “I voted for Biden” sign ready to post at my neighbors.

I’ll gauge the mob reaction and take appropriate actions accordingly.

Wait Drafter……what do you think the chemical biological reaction would be if we gave Speyside Fry Bread? I think he might go Bezerker and we could use his skills to fend off at least a platoon.
RayR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
frankj1 wrote:
other-

we'll be fine.


If you choose OTHER, it requires some kind of explanation, don't you think?. Think
RobertHively Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,844
^

He said we'll be fine. What more do you need to know? Professor Tripod has spoken.
RobertHively Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,844
ZRX1200 wrote:
what do you think the chemical biological reaction would be if we gave Speyside Fry Bread? I think he might go Bezerker and we could use his skills to fend off at least a platoon.



"They who have been bred in the school of politics fail now and always to face the facts. Their measures are half measures and makeshifts merely."

Feed him Dave's Killer Bread. No half measures.
RayR Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
RobertHively wrote:
^

He said we'll be fine. What more do you need to know? Professor Tripod has spoken.


Professor Tripod needs to know that on the battleground of ideas, nobody cares about his OTHER feelings.
Feelings are for sheeple and love play, not fighting. 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
that revolution ain't gettin' started on a discount cigar forum.

we'll be fine.
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
William!
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Frank..!! Laugh
RayR Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
Hey dudes! "we'll be fine" Whatever that means.Eh?
rfenst Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,330
frankj1 wrote:
that revolution ain't gettin' started on a discount cigar forum.

we'll be fine.

LOL.
RayR Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
The case for National divorce and even state divorces as the inevitable future of the United States. No more empty pledges like "One Nation, Indivisible". It's the enemies of the system of federalism, the proponents of consolidation of power in the center that have been the driving force in that direction, but that wasn't their plan.

Let’s Pray That Texas Doesn’t Blink
| January 27, 2024

Quote:
The years-long showdown between Texas and the Federal Government over the Texas-Mexico border took a dramatic—and potentially dangerous—turn this week. The Supreme Court (with Amy Coney Barrett as the deciding vote) ruled that Texas could not prevent the Federal Government from taking down the barbed wire fence that Texas installed along part of the border. In turn, Texas Governor Greg Abbott ordered the Texas National Guard to defend the barbed wire fence (and thus the border), saying that it was a matter of the state’s self-defense that supersedes the Supreme Court ruling.

The stakes were raised even higher when 25 Republican governors signed a letter in support of Governor Abbott. Some governors also pledged to send their own national guards to support the Texas resistance to the Federal Government. Not surprisingly, many now speak of a potential civil war brewing.

While a civil war would be horrific, I believe all right-thinking Americans should support Texas in this fight, and in fact should support more states standing up to the Federal Government, even to the point of considering secession.

I’ve made clear over the years my own support for secession. I think our country is simply too big to succeed. Our political system has gotten progressively more and more oppressive over the years, and our current Federal Government makes many past empires seem like subsidiary dreamlands in comparison. We need to break up into multiple nations, and hopefully this Texas resistance is a step in that direction.

When I first argued for secession back in 2015-2016, I knew it was a fantasy, and most people regarded the idea as quixotic at best, treasonous at worst. But then 2020 happened. The different responses taken by states to the Covid pandemic reminded Americans that states do matter; they are not just cogs in the Federal Machine. Millions moved as a result, and a certain patriotism toward one’s state rather than the country as a whole was strengthened. Now people started to wonder if their state would be better off outside of the Federal Government’s control.

More...

https://bit.ly/42fNukA


frankj1 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
you really are working for Russia, aren't you?
RayR Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
frankj1 wrote:
you really are working for Russia, aren't you?


A really DUMB repy Frankie.
These United States were born of political self-determination, born by secession...so that has something to do with Russia? With Putin?Confused

I know, the Union must be held together at the point of a bayonet, and the states must be held subservient and acquiesce to immoral and unconstitutional dicktates from the swamp and sacred duhmacracy...and "WE'LL BE FINE"? Brick wall Is that right?

Brewha Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
frankj1 wrote:
you really are working for Russia, aren't you?


I think it's more pathology than profession....
Abrignac Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
Considering the fact that the SCOTUS ruled in 1869 (I think that is the year) that Texas and other states could not secede I don’t think any option that includes secession is available.

I don’t think civil war is an option because I don’t see an armed conflict between the Texas National Guard. I seriously doubt there is a serving General who would order units under his command to fire upon “friendly” forces.

At some point the issues at the core of this will be settled by the SCOTUS. When that happens the winners will gloat, the losers will talk about how the SCOTUS is illegitimate or not, then the loser will tuck its tail and abide by the decision.
HockeyDad Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
34 trillion dollars and growing.

No way to cut spending and no way to raise enough taxes. How this horribly unwinds determines the answer to the question.
RayR Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,892
Abrignac wrote:
Considering the fact that the SCOTUS ruled in 1869 (I think that is the year) that Texas and other states could not secede I don’t think any option that includes secession is available.

I don’t think civil war is an option because I don’t see an armed conflict between the Texas National Guard. I seriously doubt there is a serving General who would order units under his command to fire upon “friendly” forces.

At some point the issues at the core of this will be settled by the SCOTUS. When that happens the winners will gloat, the losers will talk about how the SCOTUS is illegitimate or not, then the loser will tuck its tail and abide by the decision.


What the SCOTUS ruled in 1869 is not law, it's not even constitutional, so Texas can tell that SCOTUS to go suck it.
The SCOTUS is a political branch of the general government so how can it be trusted with 100% certainty to protect the liberties of the states and the people against the unlawful predations of the other branches? Clearly, there needs to be a further check against such acts.

As Jefferson wrote in the 1799 Kentucky Resolution which declared the Alien and Sedition Acts unconstitutional:

Quote:
That the principle and construction contended for by sundry of the state legislatures, that the general government is the exclusive judge of the extent of the powers delegated to it, stop nothing short of despotism; since the discretion of those who administer the government, and not the constitution, would be the measure of their powers: That the several states who formed that instrument, being sovereign and independent, have the unquestionable right to judge of its infraction; and that a nullification, by those sovereignties, of all unauthorized acts done under color of that instrument, is the rightful remedy


Judicial supremacists, and living constitution zealots which are most often lefties will say (wrongly) that any constitutional dispute settled by majority SCOTUS opinion is the law of the land, that is as long as the SCOTUS does what they want it to do. If not...well they call for revolution.
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