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Last post 6 months ago by delta1. 46 replies replies.
I guess " nobody was packing in that bowling Alley?"
Mr. Jones Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
In Lewiston, MAINE....

20+ dead
50 injured

He had a AR-15...THE BAD MANS GUN...
WOUNDED his own son...
Place was filled with all ages...

At least 2-3 people should have been armed with CCP's( it's freaking Maine for gods sake, the land of hunting and gun ownership)....let alone the bowling alley owner should've had a loaded
12 GA pump Mossberg 500 or 590 in his office???

Did everyone cower and run?

Sounds fishy 🐟 to me...
Ram27 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 04-30-2005
Posts: 49,042
Brick wall d'oh! d'oh! Brick wall
drglnc Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 715
"good guy with a gun" is rarely in the "right place, at the right time"....
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
^ defensive gun use and brandishing to prevent crime aren’t a stat the MSM likes to talk about.

Is this broad on TV the Mayor? Jesus what a piece of work she is, really leaning into her 15 minutes.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
He was such a quiet man, kept to himself and would wave to you in the yard.....


The One Detail That Torpedoes Any Gun Control Narrative in the Wake of Maine Shootings



Lewiston, Maine, the state’s second-largest city, was rocked by a horrific mass shooting that left up to 22 people dead and dozens injured. The suspect, Robert Card, remains at large. The manhunt roped in federal and state law enforcement agencies, but despite reportedly finding his vehicle near Lisbon at a boat ramp at Papermill Trail Park, Card is still missing.

Officials in Lewiston, Maine, have instructed people in the city to “stay inside with doors locked” as a manhunt continues after a shooting. Multiple sources told CBS News at least 16 people are dead, and police say they were investigating “multiple locations.”…
— CBS News (@CBSNews) October 26, 2023

BREAKING: At least 22 people have been killed and dozens more were injured in a mass shooting across multiple locations in Lewiston, Maine, police sources say. https://t.co/ryHVLHmhYa
— NBC News (@NBCNews) October 26, 2023

The reports initially had three sites where Card opened fire: Schemengees, a bar/restaurant, Sparetime Recreation, a bowling alley, and a Walmart distribution center. It was later corrected that Card did not attack the Walmart facility. The bowling alley could yield some horrible updates as a youth bowling league was underway when witnesses heard shots. Card’s image, information, and the model and make of his vehicle have been released.

Maine shooting suspect Robert Card was convicted of DUI in 2007. He's not a registered sex offender. Someone with the same name was widely shared on Twitter/X.
— BNO News Live (@BNODesk) October 26, 2023

I hate to get into the politics of this, but Democrats have already started stoking the flames of the gun control fires. That would happen anyway, but can we wait until all the details are released and the damage assessed before we get into this policy fight? We already had the information corrected. Would you like to guess which two things came up regarding the suspect that we’ve heard many times before concerning these crimes? He was known to law enforcement and had severe mental health problems.

I pulled the screenshot before Facebook nuked his account

The profile picture matches the picture distributed by the Maine Info & Analysis center pic.twitter.com/xoF4S2IDm9
— John Hasson (@SonofHas) October 26, 2023

Card is reportedly a 20-year Army veteran and a trained firearms instructor but had episodes of hearing voices in his head. He made threats to attack a National Guard base in Saco. In the summer of 2023, he was committed for two weeks at a mental health facility:

BREAKING from CBS News: MAINE LAW ENFOCEMENT BULLETIN: Maine State Police is attempting to locate Robert Card as a person of interest regarding a mass shooting incident at Schemeagees Bar and Grille Restaurant and the Sparetime Recreation in Lewiston.

Card is a trained firearms…
— David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) October 26, 2023

The shooter in Lewiston was sent to a mental health facility in the summer

He threatened to shoot up a base

They released him pic.twitter.com/jM2gjXWX6L
— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 26, 2023

More from the Associated Press:

A man opened fire at a bar and a bowling alley in Lewiston, Maine, on Wednesday, killing at least 16 people, wounding dozens of others, and throwing the state’s second-largest city into chaos as hundreds of police searched for a person of interest and residents were ordered to shelter in place.

A police intelligence bulletin identified Robert Card, who was trained as a firearms instructor at a U.S. Army Reserve training facility in Maine, as the person of interest. The document, reviewed by The Associated Press and circulated to law enforcement officials, says Card had been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks in the summer of 2023. It did not provide specific details about his treatment or condition.

The document also said Card had reported hearing voices and had threatened to carry out a shooting at the military training base in Saco, Maine. A telephone number listed for Card in public records was not in service.


More: early estimate 30 wounded https://t.co/mCddhkkG2u
— Jacqui Heinrich (@JacquiHeinrich) October 26, 2023

DEVELOPING: we had just arrived to Lisbon Falls by the Mobil station where there was a large law enforcement presence. All of a sudden, just a few minutes ago, about a dozen police vehicles took off all at once. It’s the most movement we’ve seen tonight at one time. pic.twitter.com/FOi02bYt1u
— Mal Meyer (@MalWGME) October 26, 2023

Lewiston was placed in a lockdown during this shooting. Its public schools have been closed today. Not much was said during the police press conference last night. There will be one held at 10:30 AM this morning.

UPDATE: @MEStatePolice has no updates at this time regarding the Lewiston shootings. They say they’ll have a press conference tomorrow at 10:30 am at Lewiston City Hall. @WMTWTV
— Connor Clement (@connorclementtv) October 26, 2023

But one would think Card’s firearms would be taken away once he was committed to a mental health clinic.

We’ll keep you updated.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/10/26/maine-mass-shooter-was-suffering-from-severe-mental-illness-n2630397


There were signs.

Wow.

ZRX1200 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Good thing the public officials on the news “hype manned” eachother up after doing the authorized acceptable language puking. The smile that kept creeping up on that mayor broad…..would love to see a body language break down of that. Then I heard one question that was obviously dragged and turned it off.
MACS Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
drglnc wrote:
"good guy with a gun" is rarely in the "right place, at the right time"....


That's because lots of states require permission to exercise a constitutional right. If more people were armed this shit wouldn't happen at all, or would be stopped quickly.

And it happens more than you know... but it doesn't fit the media narrative, so they do not report it.
8trackdisco Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
Mr. Jones wrote:
In Lewiston, MAINE....

20+ dead
50 injured

He had a AR-15...THE BAD MANS GUN...
WOUNDED his own son...
Place was filled with all ages...

At least 2-3 people should have been armed with CCP's( it's freaking Maine for gods sake, the land of hunting and gun ownership).....


It screws with the follow through. My average went down 18 pins.
Mr. Jones Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
From the above statements:

Of which I know nothing...
This guy did everything but begged to be mentally challenged and a possible threat to even a special ED graduate...why no lockdown or arrest?? This guy...
He's NUTS for gods sake...
drglnc Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 715
MACS wrote:
That's because lots of states require permission to exercise a constitutional right. If more people were armed this shit wouldn't happen at all, or would be stopped quickly.

And it happens more than you know... but it doesn't fit the media narrative, so they do not report it.



This happened in MAINE which allows for Concealed Carry,

The RAND Corporation, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research and policy organization, analyzed firearm ownership in 2020 and created national and state-level estimates. It found that approximately 48% of adults in Maine live in households that own at least one gun

Effective October 15, 2015, Public Law 2015, Chapter 327 (LD 652), “An Act To Authorize the Carrying of Concealed Handguns without a Permit,” allows a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm to carry a concealed handgun in the State of Maine without a permit. This law also authorizes a person to possess a loaded pistol or revolver while in a motor vehicle, trailer or other vehicle being hauled by a motor vehicle.

Concealed carry without a permit is limited to people who are 21 or older, with the following exception: If a person is 18 years of age or older, and is on active duty in the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or has been honorably discharged from the Armed Forces or the National Guard, and is not otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm, the person may carry a concealed handgun. A person who is 18-20 years old and without the referenced military qualifications must have a permit to carry concealed. The law applies to both residents of Maine and non-residents.

The law does not otherwise change where a person may carry or who may possess a firearm.


SO, almost 50% of the states adults have Guns, AND are allowed to Carry them... guess none of those people with guns are "good guys"


Mr. Jones Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,434
Makes zero sense to me. ..
Especially in this modern environment...

I was trained TO ALWAYS ADVANCE ON A THREAT WITH A WEAPON ...PRODUCE A WEAPON OR FIND ANYthing THAT CAN BE MADE INTO A WEAPON...
THE agressor never expects it and they get confused for a few seconds...those few seconds are totally critical and you gotta move fast with no hesitation at all....

I don't get what happened up there at all...my guess?
Someone had a gun but was untrained in that scenario and they froze BIG-TIME...( We will never hear about those scaredy cat freezing losers, they prolly got taken out? Anyway, the news will never report it)
And the owner of that business should've had a tactical shotgun loaded in his office...what a dumb ass he was and still is.
tonygraz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
The AR-15 is a variant of the M16 which is made to kill people. They should be outlawed. If you really want to use one, UNcle Same needs you boy.
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
So? Maine is constitutional carry... good. How many states restrict that constitutional right? Around half.

My point is still valid. IF one of those Maine Yahoos WERE carrying, as they are legally allowed to do, they could have stopped the guy.

And good guys with guns stop bad guys more than you think. But the media either doesn't report it, or they report it as briefly as possible... they don't dwell on it like they do when bad guys go nuts.

Guns are tools. A tool is useless until the mechanic picks it up. You gonna blame drunk driving on the car?
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
they'll take my AR when they pry it from my cold dead fingers... Mellow
drglnc Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 715
MACS wrote:
So? Maine is constitutional carry... good. How many states restrict that constitutional right? Around half.

My point is still valid. IF one of those Maine Yahoos WERE carrying, as they are legally allowed to do, they could have stopped the guy.

And good guys with guns stop bad guys more than you think. But the media either doesn't report it, or they report it as briefly as possible... they don't dwell on it like they do when bad guys go nuts.

Guns are tools. A tool is useless until the mechanic picks it up. You gonna blame drunk driving on the car?



So? If Constitutional carry was a thing in all 50 states it would not have changed the fact that these people in Maine are dead... in a state that it IS legal... it takes more the the right to carry... it takes the willingness and ability to act...
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
A bowling alley and a bar. Sounds like gun-free zones.
MACS Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
HockeyDad wrote:
A bowling alley and a bar. Sounds like gun-free zones.


Exactly.
MACS Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
drglnc wrote:
So? If Constitutional carry was a thing in all 50 states it would not have changed the fact that these people in Maine are dead... in a state that it IS legal... it takes more the the right to carry... it takes the willingness and ability to act...


I'm not gonna lie to you. I live in a state that allows it. I still have a CCW just for reciprocity... and I don't carry my gun because I haven't found a holster that is comfortable enough and conceals my gun in shorts and a t-shirt... which is Florida weather about 9 out of 12 months.

Open carry is stupid. You're at a tactical disadvantage.
RobertHively Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
HockeyDad wrote:
A bowling alley and a bar. Sounds like gun-free zones.


It's just a suggestion.
RobertHively Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
MACS wrote:
That's because lots of states require permission to exercise a constitutional right. If more people were armed this shit wouldn't happen at all, or would be stopped quickly.

And it happens more than you know... but it doesn't fit the media narrative, so they do not report it.




On the internets this morning, I watched a guy walk into a mans cell phone store, he casually pulled out a gun--pointed it at the store owner.

The store owner proceeded to dump at least 10 rounds into the would be robber. Owner then ran out of the store and all you see is the criminal on the floor, twitching; that's the video.

Look for it tonight on NBC. Perhaps Lester Holt's opening monolog will be on the virtues of a well armed populace.

RobertHively Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
MACS wrote:
I'm not gonna lie to you. I live in a state that allows it. I still have a CCW just for reciprocity... and I don't carry my gun because I haven't found a holster that is comfortable enough and conceals my gun in shorts and a t-shirt... which is Florida weather about 9 out of 12 months.

Open carry is stupid. You're at a tactical disadvantage.


Ive carried full, mid and small frame guns. None even come close to the Ruger LCP. 6+1 .380 semi-auto. Under 10 ounces. Carry it in your pocket and you dont even know its there. Been carrying it since 2008.

It wouldnt do much against a man with an AR-15, but it would give you a dependable close range gun which would allow you to take a defensive position and wait to see if he got close enough for you to fight back.




MACS Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
I have a Glock 43 for concealed carry. It's very light and also fits in my pocket, but it's uncomfortable there and easily identifiable as to what's in my pocket. I have a couple of CC holsters, but none are comfortable.

Thinking I might try the vanish holster. I dunno.
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
I use a Versa Carry for my 43.
Gene363 Online
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
I pocket carry a Keltec P32, carried in a DeSantis Pocket Shot holster. It looks like a wallet in your pocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc8ZDlCfMeU
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
RobertHively wrote:
Ive carried full, mid and small frame guns. None even come close to the Ruger LCP. 6+1 .380 semi-auto. Under 10 ounces. Carry it in your pocket and you dont even know its there. Been carrying it since 2008.

It wouldnt do much against a man with an AR-15, but it would give you a dependable close range gun which would allow you to take a defensive position and wait to see if he got close enough for you to fight back.





you might have hit on what happened...something like or very close to 50% of Maine-iacs own guns, and they even have laws allowing concealed carry without a permit...pretty sure I am correct.
But even if half the small crowd was armed, your point may be what is the crux of the argument.
RobertHively Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
frankj1 wrote:
you might have hit on what happened...something like or very close to 50% of Maine-iacs own guns, and they even have laws allowing concealed carry without a permit...pretty sure I am correct.
But even if half the small crowd was armed, your point may be what is the crux of the argument.



So what you're saying is that the "good guys" need more firepower? I like how you think, Frank. You could stuff a Desert Eagle 50 cal in your waistband. Then everybody would be walking around with a tripod.

Seriously, it is generally accepted that a guy with a rifle (Not just AR-15) will win against a guy with a pistol nearly all of the time, when both men are equally trained.

There's a lot of variables to any specific event though, and I haven't paid much attention to it. Maybe the person that had a good shot, wasn't one of the people that had a gun, or, like Jonesy said, maybe the person with a shot also had a gun, but froze up/got scared. Maybe they left their gun on their dresser bc it messed up their bowling score (8Track) or they don't like the fit of their holster (MACS) Who knows.
MACS Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
frankj1 wrote:
you might have hit on what happened...something like or very close to 50% of Maine-iacs own guns, and they even have laws allowing concealed carry without a permit...pretty sure I am correct.
But even if half the small crowd was armed, your point may be what is the crux of the argument.


I have a little experience with guns. Firepower is all well and good... but a man with a handgun behind cover (or concealed where the shooter isn't looking) can kill him just as dead.
8trackdisco Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
MACS wrote:
I have a Glock 43 for concealed carry. It's very light and also fits in my pocket, but it's uncomfortable there and easily identifiable as to what's in my pocket.


Stop wearing skinny jeans, ya damned hipster!

You are over 50. You are almost consitutionally requared to wear cargo pants/shorts. Slide it in the thigh pocket, tighten your belt a notch and you are good to go. I haven't found a holster I love either.
deadeyedick Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,117
Is that a Glock 43 in your pocket or you just happy to see me? Anxious
KingoftheCove Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,644
Eh………….no lock 642 in a Sticky, front pocket of my Wrangler Riggs……pants I wear 98% of the time.
Yeah, I own 10 pair…
If I’m going some place stupid?
I’ll add a 3” Gp100 in a Desantis thumbreak OWB at 330.
Speedloaders for both…
Stogie1020 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
MACS...


Thunderwear




Just don't shoot yer boys off.



Looks like their patent expired, lots of knockoffs on Amazon.
MACS Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
8trackdisco wrote:
Stop wearing skinny jeans, ya damned hipster!

You are over 50. You are almost consitutionally requared to wear cargo pants/shorts. Slide it in the thigh pocket, tighten your belt a notch and you are good to go. I haven't found a holster I love either.


My uniform of the day is cargo shorts and a t-shirt. I wear the Columbia PFG fishing shorts. I think I have 8 or so pairs of them.
Stogie1020 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,364
I kid MACS, twenty years ago that was really the only deep concealment holster, and I liked the name...
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
PFG is good stuff but not really made in any way for carry.
RobertHively Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,884
I have a Glock 36-- the original single stack mag Glock. They called it the "slimline" I believe.

But once you go LCP/KelTec it's hard to go back.
MACS Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
ZRX1200 wrote:
PFG is good stuff but not really made in any way for carry.


Nope. But I'm thinking the Vanish holster might be the ticket. Do I want to spend $90 to find out?
frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
MACS wrote:
Nope. But I'm thinking the Vanish holster might be the ticket. Do I want to spend $90 to find out?

woulda been better spent than on that rye you don't like...

ouch!
Palama Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,723
MACS wrote:
Nope. But I'm thinking the Vanish holster might be the ticket. Do I want to spend $90 to find out?


I didn’t do any research but iffin’ you can buy it through Amazon, wouldn’t you be able to return it iffin’ you didn’t like it? Think
MACS Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Palama wrote:
I didn’t do any research but iffin’ you can buy it through Amazon, wouldn’t you be able to return it iffin’ you didn’t like it? Think


Amazon has it for $130.
Palama Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,723
MACS wrote:
Amazon has it for $130.


Holy Schit! That’s quite the price difference! Gonz

But okay, devious me thinks you get it from Amazon, check it out and regardless if you like it or not, send it back, get your refund. Iffin’ you liked it then buy it from the $90 place. Anxious

Not that I would do that of course. Not talking



















Liar
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
does the $90 place have a refund/return policy?
MACS Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
delta1 wrote:
does the $90 place have a refund/return policy?


It was $89 direct from vnsh, but it's now $130 there, too. Saw a few video reviews... ain't what it's cracked up to be. Made in China...

The search continues.
8trackdisco Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,087
MACS wrote:
Nope. But I'm thinking the Vanish holster might be the ticket. Do I want to spend $90 to find out?


Why not? We spend $70 on a bottler of stuff that makes us dumber. And extra $20 to be safer? Seems easy.
KingoftheCove Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,644
MACS wrote:
It was $89 direct from vnsh, but it's now $130 there, too. Saw a few video reviews... ain't what it's cracked up to be. Made in China...

The search continues.

Yeah………..wearing a stretchy 5+ inch wide band around my waste, all day, in YOUR climate??
Pass…..
Might be good for limited time periods, in certain situations?
Pocket carry (in holster) or OWB (thumbreak scabbard or speed scabbard) is, and always has been, my CC methods.
All others (shoulder rig, ankle, IWB, small of back, etc) just had too many drawbacks for my needs.


MACS Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Urban Carry G3... anyone have that CC holster?

Looks promising for $70
delta1 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
see if they'll let you take it for a test drive at the bowling alley...if you can hit a strike of a spare while wearing it, keep your average steady... it's a keeper
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