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Last post 13 months ago by rfenst. 48 replies replies.
Question for my Jewish brothers
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MACS Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
So... was talking with a guy who converted to Judaism. He's a black guy, and he was insisting that Jewish people are a "race". I thought I recalled a conversation we had here before, but I was not 100% sure.

I said, "Nah, man, Judaism is a religion". Anyone can convert to Judaism, sure, but I don't believe Jews are a race of people.

I know you descend from 12 tribes, so maybe I am wrong on this one? I dunno... I submit the question to my Jewish brothers.

Race? Religion? Both?
Huzza3045 Online
#2 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 9:54 AM EST
Joined: 11-07-2022
Posts: 571
When people ask if I am Jewish, I usually specify which of the two. I think Jew is commonly considered both a race and a religion, but I might be wrong. I’m not too involved with Judaism
Stogie1020 Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,379
I will toss my .02 in here.

It is commonly referred to as a race AND a religion, although a likely more accurate response would be that it is a religion shared by some (but not all) people of a Semitic descent. Obviously, there are non-Jews of semitic descent (Druze, Arab, Zoastrans, etc.) and the Jewish Semites are further categorized as Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on the region of the world they went to in ancient times and then came back to Israel (or didn't) from...

The legal scholars can chime in here, but I think generally in the US if you commit a hate crime against a Jewish person, any civil rights infraction is related to the person's religion, not their race.

Also, some Semite came up with gefilte fish, so don't take any of this too seriously.

Also, I occasionally enjoy gefilte fish with a little horseraddish, so don't take that last statement too seriously.
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 11:50 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
hard to say definitively if we are a race, especially since a "Lost Tribe" of Jews has turned up in the mountains of Africa (Ethiopia, I believe) and spoke an ancient language similar to ancient Hebrew and even had what may have been an original Torah and Ark...
they were airlifted to Israel where they were immediately treated as second class citizens but that's for another forum!

I can say with more certainty that yes, religion for sure, but instead of being a race consider the Jewish people a bloodline, specifically a maternal bloodline, if your mother is Jewish, so are you. Remember that until recent history no one could say for sure who fathered the child.

Shawn, though true that anyone can convert to Judaism, we do not recruit EVAH and in fact it is intentionally difficult to do and is discouraged quite often. The Rabbi needs to be convinced of the sincere desire to join as opposed to a convenience to shut up judgmental in-laws in order to marry their son/daughter.
frankj1 Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
and I like gefilte fish
Stogie1020 Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,379
frankj1 wrote:
hard to say definitively if we are a race, especially since a "Lost Tribe" of Jews has turned up in the mountains of Africa (Ethiopia, I believe) and spoke an ancient language similar to ancient Hebrew and even had what may have been an original Torah and Ark...
they were airlifted to Israel where they were immediately treated as second class citizens but that's for another forum!

Come on Frank.... They didn't write, they didn't call...
MACS Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
Thank you, gentlemen. I knew I could count on you'ze to make me smahtah!
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
My mother’s grandmother was Jewish.

I’m only Jewish when I fill out questionnaires for HR. I also write in “Greatest of All Time” in after my job title…..nobody messes with me.

But I’ll defer to Frank, he’s been around the block a time or two.
Stogie1020 Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,379
ZRX1200 wrote:
My mother’s grandmother was Jewish.

I’m only Jewish when I fill out questionnaires for HR. I also write in “Greatest of All Time” in after my job title…..nobody messes with me.

But I’ll defer to Frank, he’s been around the block a time or two.

Welcome to the tribe, Z.

When in a restaurant, you are now officially barred from ordering an item from a menu "as is" and must make numerous changes, generlaly until the server rolls his/her/they's eyes.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 4:18 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Stogie1020 wrote:
When in a restaurant, you are now officially barred from ordering an item from a menu "as is" and must make numerous changes, generally until the server rolls his/her/they's eyes.


Based on that I think my daughter is Jewish.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
Stogie1020 wrote:
Welcome to the tribe, Z.

When in a restaurant, you are now officially barred from ordering an item from a menu "as is" and must make numerous changes, generlaly until the server rolls his/her/they's eyes.

and expect the server to check on your party by asking "is ANYthing alright?"
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 4:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
Stogie1020 wrote:
Come on Frank.... They didn't write, they didn't call...

excellent!
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
the wife of the people across the street converted to Judaism and they raised their 3 boys as Jews.
She tells people who ask that she's "Jewish by injection".
tonygraz Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,292
I've heard that one before. A black girl that works at a grocery store I frequent wears a Yamaka/yarmulke at work, but I hesitate to ask why. Does one wearing a Yamaka riding a Yamaha have a special designation ?
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 5:55 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Frank is she hot? I could offer her one.
ZRX1200 Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 5:57 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
And it’s kosher
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 9:49 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
the wife of the people across the street converted to Judaism and they raised their 3 boys as Jews.
She tells people who ask that she's "Jewish by injection".


You reached all the way across the street?

Of course you did.
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 9:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
and expect the server to check on your party by asking "is ANYthing alright?"


Hey!
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 9:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
My mother’s grandmother was Jewish.

I’m only Jewish when I fill out questionnaires for HR. I also write in “Greatest of All Time” in after my job title…..nobody messes with me.

But I’ll defer to Frank, he’s been around the block a time or two.



"Always go for Native American on the HR forms."
-E. Warren
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 9:52 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
And is it wrong that I thought MACS was going to ask a tax question?
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 11:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
"Always go for Native American on the HR forms."
-E. Warren


I knew there was a Warren layup just waiting to be said but I couldn't get 'er done.
Thank you...
I can exhale now
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Feb 22 2023, 11:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
And is it wrong that I thought MACS was going to ask a tax question?



I don't think so but look what happened to Tony Mazz.
MACS Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 7:11 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
tailgater wrote:
And is it wrong that I thought MACS was going to ask a tax question?


I probably should have. I owed both fed and state!

Fed can wait until April... mudda fuggas.
deadeyedick Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 8:18 AM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,129
MACS wrote:
I probably should have. I owed both fed and state!

Fed can wait until April... mudda fuggas.



I only owe money to two people: The jews and the gentiles
MACS Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 10:34 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
deadeyedick wrote:
I only owe money to two people: The jews and the gentiles


LOL
ZRX1200 Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Stogie, my grandma averaged $3 checking the cushions at Barnes and Noble. This is my family experience…..I’ll have to work in the restaurant gimmick.
tailgater Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 10:29 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I don't think so but look what happened to Tony Mazz.


No. Mazz really screwed the pooch on that one.
It sounded awful as he was saying it.

frankj1 Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
No. Mazz really screwed the pooch on that one.
It sounded awful as he was saying it.


how weird would it be if we reversed our normal political positions on this issue?
Stogie1020 Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Feb 23 2023, 11:29 PM EST
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,379
ZRX1200 wrote:
Stogie, my grandma averaged $3 checking the cushions at Barnes and Noble. This is my family experience…..I’ll have to work in the restaurant gimmick.

Please don't, it's a stain on my race, er... religion.
tailgater Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Feb 24 2023, 11:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
how weird would it be if we reversed our normal political positions on this issue?



No need to worry.
When I first "heard" (or read) about the story, I thought the line was "last time you were around a couple of black guys like that, they stole your car".

Except he didn't say black.

So I either misheard or misread.

And it is a big nothing-burger.

Whistlebritches Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Feb 25 2023, 11:46 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Too funny not to add


“During the Second World War, a southern matron calls up the local army base. ‘We would be honored,’ she tells the sergeant who takes her call, ‘to accommodate five soldiers at our Thanksgiving dinner.’ ‘That’s very gracious of you, ma’am,’ the sergeant answers. ‘Just please make sure they’re not Jews,’ the matron adds. ‘I understand, ma’am.’ Thanksgiving afternoon, the woman answers the front doorbell and is horrified to find five black soldiers standing in the doorway. ‘We’re here for Thanksgiving dinner, ma’am,’ one of the soldiers says. ‘Bu … bu … but your sergeant has made a terrible mistake,’ the woman says. ‘Oh no, ma’am,’ the soldier answers. ‘Sergeant Steinberg never makes mistakes.’”
frankj1 Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Feb 25 2023, 11:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
true story!
That was my father.
Whistlebritches Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Feb 25 2023, 11:57 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
frankj1 wrote:
true story!
That was my father.



LMMFAO............The story above is true; the names were supposed to have been changed to protect the innocent
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Feb 25 2023, 11:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
HA!
Whistlebritches Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Feb 26 2023, 12:15 AM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
frankj1 wrote:
HA!



Frank I heard your Father received the Star of David for his heroics in this event
8trackdisco Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Apr 13 2023, 8:56 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,097
At what point and why did the Israelites evolve into being renamed Jews?
Mr. Jones Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Apr 13 2023, 9:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,451
Both...

And the Shabak pays top dollar for clandestine favors by civilian sub contractors...and they back you for a lifetime even when everyone you worked with is deceased....
Smokeshow44 Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Apr 13 2023, 9:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2022
Posts: 2
i love whiskey sours
Mike3316 Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Apr 13 2023, 11:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2022
Posts: 329
My cousin married a guy who WAS Jewish. His father is even a rabbi. He converted to Catholicism to marry my cousin - THAT went over well with his parents. When anyone asks if he's a Jew, his response is ... "I'm Jew-ish". Lol. Think
rfenst Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Apr 14 2023, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,379
Mike3316 wrote:
My cousin married a guy who WAS Jewish. His father is even a rabbi. He converted to Catholicism to marry my cousin - THAT went over well with his parents. When anyone asks if he's a Jew, his response is ... "I'm Jew-ish". Lol. Think

My cousin was married in Indonesian in a somewhat Muslim/Island tradition. He says he just mouthed the words to please her. She never told her family he was a Jew. Being Jewish in Jakarta is legally like "anti-social behavior.," but never enforced.
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Apr 14 2023, 10:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
8trackdisco wrote:
At what point and why did the Israelites evolve into being renamed Jews?


I kinda thought, without real certainty, that the words Jew, Jewish, Judaism probably derived from one of the 12 tribes, named for Jacob's (also called Israel...maybe the Children of Israel?) sons. One was Judah, his tribe sort of became the Kindgom of Judea...I'm close if not accurate.

Mix in some ancient Aramaic (spoken at the time of Jesus, who was from the Tribe of Judah) some ancient Greek and/or Latin and it ends up today as what we use for the words.

This is a start, Russ, not to be used as a source.
MACS Offline
#42 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 7:16 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
Why is it that many Jewish folks I know do not believe in God?

Haven't they read the Torah? They gotta know how this is gonna go... and it's headed that way. fog
8trackdisco Offline
#43 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,097
frankj1 wrote:
I kinda thought, without real certainty, that the words Jew, Jewish, Judaism probably derived from one of the 12 tribes, named for Jacob's (also called Israel...maybe the Children of Israel?) sons. One was Judah, his tribe sort of became the Kindgom of Judea...I'm close if not accurate.

Mix in some ancient Aramaic (spoken at the time of Jesus, who was from the Tribe of Judah) some ancient Greek and/or Latin and it ends up today as what we use for the words.

This is a start, Russ, not to be used as a source.



Am always looking to learn. Directional knowledge is good. I won't quote your words as ..... scripture.
8trackdisco Offline
#44 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 8:19 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,097
MACS wrote:
Why is it that many Jewish folks I know do not believe in God?

Haven't they read the Torah? They gotta know how this is gonna go... and it's headed that way. fog


Brings another question, and then a thought.

Are there significant differences between the Torah and what Christians call the Old Testament?

Shawn,
Think there is a similar malady with Christians a generation younger than us. I hear many people say they were raised Christian, don't go to church of believe in God.
MACS Offline
#45 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 8:53 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
^Yes, that is also true.

I do believe the first 5 books of the old Testament are the same as the Torah. If it isn't exactly the same, it's pretty close to it.
BuckyB93 Offline
#46 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 9:39 AM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,231
I have a hard time not believing that there is some power greater than me (call it God or whatever) that created what we see around us. Was there a master plan by some supreme being that has all the insight on how things will work and evolve? I don't know. Maybe it just dipped it's finger into the celestial pool to start a chain reaction to get us where we are now and see how it works out. Maybe there's a bunch of others "experiments" that it dipped it's finger into.

Here on this rock that we call Earth
- Plants, animals, insects, bacteria, etc... all live in a symbiotic relationship.
- Animals breath oxygen and exhale CO2, plants breathe CO2 and give off oxygen.
- Bees buzz around to collect nectar and in doing so, pollinate plants to make fruit and veggies and seeds for more plants to grow.
- Bacteria can kill life but most life need it to live.

So on and so forth. There are so many moving parts in this world that need to fall into place for life, as we know it, to exist.

I get it, there are billions and billions of stars, billions and billions of solar systems, billions and billions of planets. With that amount of trial and error, eventually all the pieces could fall together to create life (the infinite monkey theorem - monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will eventually create a work of Shakespeare).

Does this relate to the original post and question? Probably not... Dude, pass the bong...
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 1:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,379
8trackdisco,

Major differences of translation to English by Christians. Also, there are some Christians whose translation and interpretation include foreshadowing of Christ, which Jews don't agree with.
rfenst Offline
#48 Posted: Sat, Apr 15 2023, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,379
MACS wrote:
^Yes, that is also true.

I do believe the first 5 books of the old Testament are the same as the Torah. If it isn't exactly the same, it's pretty close to it.

Identical in Hebrew, but not necessarily English translations by non-Jews.
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