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Last post 19 years ago by Double D. 21 replies replies.
President Bush - Promised Tax Cuts Delivered!!
Double D Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
Thank God we have a president who delivers on his promise to reduce our income tax burden!!

Too bad we can't say the same about the ultra-liberal Socialist-Communist Modern Democratic Party!!

Bush traveled to Des Moines, Iowa, to sign into law a $146 billion package of tax breaks, including around $131 billion of popular income-tax measures, which Congress passed in an overwhelming vote last month.

"Overall, 94 million Americans will have a lower tax bill next year," Bush said. "The money they keep will make it easier to save for their retirement or their children's education, invest in a home or a small business, or pay off credit card debts."

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B55FDF097%2DF3B3%2D44A8%2D804C%2D43ACCB2BF21F%7D&siteid=mktw

DD
00camper Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
I love keeping more of my own money. Thanks to Dubya I can give more to church and other charities.
Charlie Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
We better enjoy it while we can, cause if JfK happens to win, bye bye money and hello to bigger Government and Welfare!

Charlie
usahog Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Hide your Guns.... Hide your Wallet... Hide the Kids!!!!

LOL

Hog
nfldraftman Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-28-2004
Posts: 642
It must be nice to give away money without having to justify where its coming from. What deficit? A hundred billion here a hundred billion there. Oh wait, I'm sorry I forgot I'm just supposed to go along with everything the president says or I'm a bad american. My bad.
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,208
By the way, John Kerry is completely in favor of these tax cuts.
Sylance Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
That's what he said this week...
EI Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 5,069
"It must be nice to give away money without having to justify where its coming from. What deficit? A hundred billion here a hundred billion there. Oh wait, I'm sorry I forgot I'm just supposed to go along with everything the president says or I'm a bad american. My bad."

"GIVE AWAY MONEY WITHOUT HAVING JUSTIFY WHERE IT COMES FROM"
You have just proven the point of what is wrong with liberal thinking.
IT COMES FROM US (TAXPAYERS) AND IT IS NOT GIVING IT AWAY IT IS RETURNING IT TO THE PEOPLE THAT EARNED IT
Double D Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
EI

Typical liberal Democratic thinking, eh?...naive, misguided, or just plain stupidity...or perhaps a combination of all 3?

DD
EI Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 5,069
"By the way, John Kerry is completely in favor of these tax cuts."

So much so that he want to repeal them if elected.

Say it with conviction Hockeydad
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,208

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/taxes/a/r_taxes.htm

"John Kerry has the courage to take on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. However, he believes that we should keep the middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for in 2001 and 2003. Specifically, he wants to protect the increases in the child tax credit, the reduced marriage penalty and the new tax bracket that helps people save $350 on their first level of income. He strongly disagrees with Democrats who want to repeal these tax cuts because it would cost a typical middle-class family with two children an additional $2,000."

The new tax law is merely an extension of the above tax cuts that were set to expire. Extending these tax cuts was both part of Bush's plan and Kerry's plan. It passed 92-3 in the senate and 339-65 in the house. Kerry was not present to vote on it. Of course, now that it is passed and Kerry was in favor of it on paper, repealing them later after getting elected would be a bit of a poison pill that some might consider to be a flip-flop or even a bold-faced lie.

Kerry has said repeatedly that he will not raise taxes on the middle class and only will repeal Bush's tax cuts for those making more than $200K a year, i.e. the rich or wealthy. He'll also be going after corporate tax loopholes. This is the party line.

There may be some wiggle room on the definitions of "middle class", "rich", and "wealthy" because there are no definitions.


NFLdraftman, technically you need to keep up with Kerry's party line, not just go along with everything the president says!

EI, I respectfully decline to say it with conviction!
EI Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 5,069
Do some fact checking on who is considered the richest Americans according to Kerrys plan.
A nurse making 50,000 married to a policeman making 45,000 are considered to be rich. Add 2 kids to that mix if you will and they are still considered wealthy
Is that what you believe Hockey Dad????????????????
Do you really think that you would be untouched by his tax increases.
Do you have any comprhension of trickle down economics
Corporations do not pay income tax, people do.
The richest of the rich will just stop buying the products the lower middle class workers make
The corporations will lay off those workers which will in effect reduce the tax burden made by those workers and paid to the government. So when people are laid off they dont pay taxes on what they don't make and the govenment has to support them with tax dollars for food stamps and unemployment benifits
and so on down the ladder it goes
Wake up and smell the coffee
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,208
Source:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/middle_class.html

"Cut Middle-Class Taxes to Raise Middle-Class Incomes

John Kerry Will Cut Taxes for 98 Percent of American Families and 99 Percent of Businesses. In addition, he will:

Propose At Least $250 Billion In Tax Cuts For Health Care, Child Care, and Education - Without Increasing the Deficit By One Dime. As president, John Kerry will close corporate tax loopholes and use some of the money gained from repealing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans - families making over $200,000 a year - to pay for tax credits without increasing the deficit by one dime. The Kerry-Edwards tax cuts include:

A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition
A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care and buy into John Kerry's new Congressional Health Plan.
A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses"


That is what he says he is going to do!!!.....Keep in mind that Howard Dean was going to repeal all the tax cuts so Kerry took the more moderate approach and ran off Howard Dean as the unelectable guy everybody liked.

As to what a political candidate says he is going to do versus actually does, well, let's just say there is some wiggle room!

EI Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 5,069
"As to what a political candidate says he is going to do versus actually does, well, let's just say there is some wiggle room!"

Wiggle room??????????
Could you really mean FLIP FLOP????????

HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,208
EI,

I would only characterize something as a flip-flip if someone genuinely begins a cycle of clearly establishing and then changing a position due to indecision.

Telling 51% of the people what they want to hear for the purposes of getting elected and then hedging on promises based on vague generalities and definitions is simply the craft of a master career politician. Well, depending on what your definition of "is" is.

The art form to the craft is to never get too specific. People hold specifics against you later. Kerry's tax plan only offers one specific term in that he will repeal the Bush tax cuts for any family with an income greater than $200K. That is a hard and fast number but a safe one. While still a presidential candidate, Edwards had a similar plan of repeal appeal, he went after the top 2% of wage earners which yielded an income target of $240K. Their plans are close, perhaps now they're going after the top 3% but Kerry is still defining $200K as the top 2%.

Kerry's only other promise that is close to specific is that he will not raise taxes on the middle class and will have even more tax breaks for the middle class. There is no definition of "middle class". It is safe to say that "middle class" is not anyone making less than $200K but where is the magical middle class, nobody knows or will tell.

There probably is a fairly large gap between the repealing of Bush's tax cuts for those making over $200K and the middle class who will get tax reduction. Nowhere in Kerry's plan does it say that those who fall in this gap won't get the crap taxed out of them. It just will come from new taxes, not a repeal of the Bush tax cuts! That would not violate any campaign promise. Your example of the policeman and nurse making a family income of 90K probably falls in this category.

As far as Kerry's promise for tax cuts for 98% of the people, that was just taken care of by President Bush through the extension of the 10% bracket and the child credit. I suspect Kerry's website will be revised soon.
AVB Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Trickle Down Myths:

Tax Cut Reminiscent of "Trickle-Down" Economics

Courtesy of the Associated Press 2001

Twenty years ago, in 1981, new President Ronald Reagan prodded Congress to pass a huge tax cut, mostly for the wealthy. One of his aides slipped and said the plan's small cut for lower brackets was a "Trojan horse" to lure Congress members into supporting it.

Reagan promised that the reduction would jump-start America's economy through the "supply-side" principle: i.e., the investor class would have more money to spend on factory and business expansions, creating jobs and causing money to " trickle down" to the working class.

Reagan said his cut would unleash "the dynamics of the free market," spurring growth, producing more federal revenue and balancing the U.S. budget by 1983.

Since tax reductions are immensely popular, Congress jumped on the bandwagon, even though then-Vice President George Bush previously had called supply-side "voodoo economics." A feeding frenzy occurred, with cliques of Congress members giving special write-offs to their favorite industries.

The result was the biggest tax cut in U.S. history: $1.8 trillion over the next nine years. But since Reagan also demanded an expensive military buildup, the federal government soon was heading for bankruptcy. Therefore, the biggest tax increase in U.S. history, $98 billion, had to be passed to try to curb the deficits. But it wasn't enough. Deficits soared, and the national debt quadrupled.

Today, new President George W. Bush sounds like an echo of 1981 as he calls for a huge tax cut. Will his plan likewise lead to deficits and the need for follow-up increases? Writing in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, former House Speaker Jim Wright, D-Texas, commented: "Reagan's tax increases fell mainly on consumers, low- and middle-income people. Sales and excise levies. Reagan didn't call these taxes.' They were, in his euphemistic lexicon, user fees' and revenue-enhancers.'

"Big business got the gravy, and the country got the business. The monumental errors of 1981's tax-cutting frenzy burdened our national budgets for the next 18 years.

"Now that we're finally in balance, and could pay off some of the debt we amassed, it does seem a lousy shame to start down that same temptatious road again."

Politicians rarely seem to learn lessons from history. They think only of the next election. But we hope some senators and representatives remember the 1980s disaster, and inject caution into the current Washington bandwagon.

http://www.faireconomy.org/research/TrickleDown.html

A more technical explaination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_effect

A simpler explaination: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2548/is_2001_Jan/ai_70396224
bloody spaniard Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
AVB, not being one to hunker down & enjoy the latest OMB books with my favorite stick, my understanding was that the spending by a mostly Democratic Congress exceeded the increased tax revenues generated by the tax cuts. Thus, the deficit.

Too simplistic?
Charlie Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Anybody who doesn't want their tax cut, can send it to me!

Charlie
AVB Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Bloody,

The Democrats didn't gain control until Reagans 6th year so, in this case, that explaination isn't true. The large increase in spending coupled with the tax cuts created the deficit during the Reagan years.
Double D Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
The Democrats were in control of The House throughout the Reagan preidency...Tip O'Neil was speaker of the House (majority leader) from 1977 to 1987...

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/O/ON1eill-T1p.asp

It was O'Neil's (and his fellow libs) stonewalling that disrupted Reagans attempts at reducing government spending.

DD
AVB Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Howard Baker and Bob Dole, both republicans, were the Senate Majority Leaders 1980-1987 (Jan. to Jan.). An appropriation has to be passed on both sides before being approved so you can't just blame the House. Tax cuts and increased spending were the cause of the deficit. Sound Failure?
Double D Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
AVB

Thats my point...since O'Neil and the libs were in control of the House, and since both House and Senate approval is needed, spending cuts (other than military) were never enacted because of O'Neils stonewalling.

Now, does that sound more failure to you?

DD


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