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Last post 6 years ago by jjanecka. 126 replies replies.
3 Pages<123>
a true war on women
tailgater Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
gesundheit.

frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
go in health
jjanecka Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Prequel law mandate:

A man that layeth down with another man commits an abomination in the sight of the Lord and both shall be put to death.

Herfing
TMCTLT Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
jjanecka wrote:
Prequel law mandate:

A man that layeth down with another man commits an abomination in the sight of the Lord and both shall be put to death.

Herfing



Somebody better tell Vicki and Toni Whistle



















































Sarcasm
jjanecka Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
I heard Tony was the reason Vic's dong pic collection even started.
TMCTLT Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
jjanecka wrote:
I heard Tony was the reason Vic's dong pic collection even started.



I heard somethin along those lines too....lol
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
Prequel law mandate:

A man that layeth down with another man commits an abomination in the sight of the Lord and both shall be put to death.

Herfing

there are some great one-liners...

but an old Rabbi once told me that the OT can be summed up thusly (stop me if you've heard this before):

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto You

I'm thinking your cherry-picked line doesn't jibe with the real message of The Prequel
gummy jones Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
frankj1 wrote:
there are some great one-liners...

but an old Rabbi once told me that the OT can be summed up thusly (stop me if you've heard this before):

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done Unto You


i think ive heard of that old Rabbi

Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, [n]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 [o]And a second like unto it is this, [p]Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.
Herfing
jjanecka Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Despite the fact my quip was made in sarcasm I'll argue anyway.

Considering that teacher also said:

For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

I really wouldn't call it it cherry picking; it's clear that Jesus stands by the Law as authoritative. We also have evidence of this when he tells his disciples "Do as they say but not as they do." In regard to the pharisees because it was clear that they held authority in the law; though their practices were hypocritical of the nature of the law at the time.

I'm not saying stone every gay. Clearly every person should be met with decency but we have to remember God pretty much hated gays in those days what with the nuking of Soddom and Gammorah.
gummy jones Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
jjanecka wrote:
Despite the fact my quip was made in sarcasm I'll argue anyway.

Considering that teacher also said:

For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

I really wouldn't call it it cherry picking; it's clear that Jesus stands by the Law as authoritative. We also have evidence of this when he tells his disciples "Do as they say but not as they do." In regard to the pharisees because it was clear that they held authority in the law; though their practices were hypocritical of the nature of the law at the time.

I'm not saying stone every gay. Clearly every person should be met with decency but we have to remember God pretty much hated gays in those days what with the nuking of Soddom and Gammorah.


true, Jesus affirmed the Law but we have to keep in mind that He is the fulfillment of it. as Paul tells us, salvation was never in the Law as all that can come from it is condemnation. the entire old Testament points to salvation by grace through faith and the Messiah to come.

i woudnt say God hates anyone as both the OT and NT affirm that "God wishes that non perish" but we need to be very clear that a just God must punish sin. in that regard we are all hopelessly lost as we all fall short of riteousness, as defined by the Law, and in need of a savior. some fall short due to homosexual practice while others prefer pornography or covetousness, etc. remember God told Abraham he would not destroy sodom if there were even 10 righteous folks in the city.
tonygraz Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
frankj1 wrote:
do we have your blessing?


Do whatever you want as consenting adults. Paul will be very angry - but only because he is afraid of his real sexuality.
TMCTLT Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
Do whatever you want as consenting adults. Paul will be very angry - but only because he is afraid of his real sexuality.



I do not care what two consenting adults do either, it's when they force others to celebrate their chosen sexuality and attempt to remove any and all references to marriage as between One Woman and One Man....Yes I take issue with that as well as many other disturbing practices which were forwarded under Barry.

If you and Vicki want to get your freak on in the privacy of your Prius parked under a bridge....who am I to argue.

tailgater Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Frank, are there any young rabbis?
If so, they must not say anything quotable.

jjanecka Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Gummy, that was a pretty solid explanation. Grant it, we Catholics do not accept justification by grace alone; though since Benedict XVI and the Lutheran Synods made a pact to squash the whole 'Protestant' thing a few years ago it is considered valid doctrine by the Church. Hopefully we'll be able to see the two Churches come back into communion with each other within our lifetime regardless if it is a soft union or a much stronger union.

Yeah TCBY has a point too, secular society is encroaching on what truthfully is a religious term and attempting to redefine it. Call it a union, call it a civil arrangement but do not call it a marriage because clearly Religion has defined what a marriage is not the Government.
victor809 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I've said before. If you don't want government screwing with your marriage then don't make it a government recognized state.
tonygraz Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
How different would a republican state and Sharia law really be ? Should we stop calling this country "the land of the free" ?
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
What are you trying to spin now... democrats are the ones trying to change the constitution and how people think. .. Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
#64 I was raised Catholic, studied the catechism, considered becoming a deacon, etc but realized I had never actually read the Bible. It struck me that I considered myself a Christian but had never read the Word. I set out to do just that and things finally made sense. It has to be grace alone through faith alone otherwise the need for a savior is diminished. If we can get to God through works, or being a "good" person, etc then why the heck did God send His son to die?

(I'm not suggesting that you haven't read the Bible just that literally zero of the most devout Catholics I know haven't)
frankj1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I read every word you guys write about this,I am totally enthralled by the brilliance of your faith tied into your intellectualism, so lemme just say this about that...

I reject any notion that personifies any possibly believable God...limiting him/her with human stuff like being able to hate, be jealous etc. Please.
An all powerful Creator can not possibly be held back by such trifling human emotions. Spare me "in God's image"...that's us, not God.

I am not pious, not a very religious Jew, but if I never heard of the Prequel, The Sequel, The Quoran, The Book of Morman or Norman, or even the Ten Commandments, I would live my life the way I try to do every day now...by doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

I don't need bribes of eternal bliss, I don't need fear of eternal punishment to stay in line. It just makes sense to do the right thing, to treat others as I would like to be treated. So I do that to the best of my ability.

Quote away, but it's about the life we live, not the words we memorize and quote to prove points.
The last line is not a knock, I just want to state that sometimes believers get caught up in verse...I am of the mindset that actions speak louder than words. but words give others insight of what actions to expect..
gummy jones Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
We are all broken, regardless of memorized scripture, money donated, good deeds, etc.

You basically summed up Christianity. All fall short of the glory of God. From the prequel "none seeketh after God, no not one." We are all selfish and self absorbed, infinitely closer to a bad guy like Hitler than we are to the perfect Creator. We don't like to hear those things because pretty much everyone thinks of themselves as "good." I did meet a guy the other day, however, who has lived a life of profound brokenness and invited him to church. He declined because he was sure "the walls would cave in" if he stepped foot in the place.

As to knowing right from wrong, it's called objective morality and we are told it is "written on our hearts." What the nazis did to the Jews would be terrible on any planet, in any age, etc. There are plenty of people who are atheists but very moral - Christopher Hitchens struck me as one of those men and I admired him. Likewise there are many who goto church and proclaim to know yet are wicked inside and out.

I like to think I'm somewhere between yet know I'm still, even on my best day, a sinner in need of a savior. The best I can ever be (in this life) is a beggar trying to tell other beggars where to find some bread.
frankj1 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
We are all broken, regardless of memorized scripture, money donated, good deeds, etc.

You basically summed up Christianity. All fall short of the glory of God. From the prequel "none seeketh after God, no not one." We are all selfish and self absorbed, infinitely closer to a bad guy like Hitler than we are to the perfect Creator. We don't like to hear those things because pretty much everyone thinks of themselves as "good." I did meet a guy the other day, however, who has lived a life of profound brokenness and invited him to church. He declined because he was sure "the walls would cave in" if he stepped foot in the place.

As to knowing right from wrong, it's called objective morality and we are told it is "written on our hearts." What the nazis did to the Jews would be terrible on any planet, in any age, etc. There are plenty of people who are atheists but very moral - Christopher Hitchens struck me as one of those men and I admired him. Likewise there are many who goto church and proclaim to know yet are wicked inside and out.

I like to think I'm somewhere between yet know I'm still, even on my best day, a sinner in need of a savior. The best I can ever be (in this life) is a beggar trying to tell other beggars where to find some bread.

and I went to bed last night thinking my words would be misconstrued...

interesting post Gummy.
tonygraz Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
frankj1 wrote:
I read every word you guys write about this,I am totally enthralled by the brilliance of your faith tied into your intellectualism, so lemme just say this about that...

I reject any notion that personifies any possibly believable God...limiting him/her with human stuff like being able to hate, be jealous etc. Please.
An all powerful Creator can not possibly be held back by such trifling human emotions. Spare me "in God's image"...that's us, not God.

I am not pious, not a very religious Jew, but if I never heard of the Prequel, The Sequel, The Quoran, The Book of Morman or Norman, or even the Ten Commandments, I would live my life the way I try to do every day now...by doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

I don't need bribes of eternal bliss, I don't need fear of eternal punishment to stay in line. It just makes sense to do the right thing, to treat others as I would like to be treated. So I do that to the best of my ability.

Quote away, but it's about the life we live, not the words we memorize and quote to prove points.
The last line is not a knock, I just want to state that sometimes believers get caught up in verse...I am of the mindset that actions speak louder than words. but words give others insight of what actions to expect..



Nicely done Frank. I took classes in my school's divinity school and looked hard for a sensible religion- never found one. Currently going Pastafarian - the one least meant to control the masses by fear and threats.
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
tonygraz wrote:
How different would a republican state and Sharia law really be ? Should we stop calling this country "the land of the free" ?


That was Bernie's slogan.

The land of the free....stuff.


tailgater Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I read every word you guys write about this,I am totally enthralled by the brilliance of your faith tied into your intellectualism, so lemme just say this about that...

I reject any notion that personifies any possibly believable God...limiting him/her with human stuff like being able to hate, be jealous etc. Please.
An all powerful Creator can not possibly be held back by such trifling human emotions. Spare me "in God's image"...that's us, not God.

I am not pious, not a very religious Jew, but if I never heard of the Prequel, The Sequel, The Quoran, The Book of Morman or Norman, or even the Ten Commandments, I would live my life the way I try to do every day now...by doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

I don't need bribes of eternal bliss, I don't need fear of eternal punishment to stay in line. It just makes sense to do the right thing, to treat others as I would like to be treated. So I do that to the best of my ability.

Quote away, but it's about the life we live, not the words we memorize and quote to prove points.
The last line is not a knock, I just want to state that sometimes believers get caught up in verse...I am of the mindset that actions speak louder than words. but words give others insight of what actions to expect..


This all started when Frank first ate some ham...


TMCTLT Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
How different would a republican state and Sharia law really be ? Should we stop calling this country "the land of the free" ?



Have you asked this of your wife and daughters or other women in your life?
Maybe if your clam was in danger of being ripped or cut out of you you'd feel differently, or perhaps just having a completely different set of social laws set upon you simply because your a woman.

Okay....your free to continue trolling.
gummy jones Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
for fans of philosophy, regardless of creed, race, religion, etc
for those who are seeking (arent we all)
well worth 10 minutes of your time


http://www.reasonablefaith.org/you-have-ruined-my-life-professor-craig
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty mama, come and take me to buy a ham..
Buy a ham, take me to buy a ham, pretty mama..
Gonna dance with you all night long...
I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty mama, come and take me to buy a ham... Whistle
jjanecka Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
While I'm not exactly disagreeing with you Gummy, one can believe and be a follower of Christ and do a bunch of screwed up crap and seemingly us their religious convictions as a scapegoat.

No different that what Paul said, faith without action is meaningless. And for that reason also Jesus' own words, many will come to me saying Lord, Lord, and I will turn to them and tell them, "I do not know you! Depart from me you sinner!" Also, the parable of the three stewards rewards the deeds of the two individuals and punishes the steward who buried the gold talent for fear of reprisal from his master. Likewise the poor man who did not have a wedding garb was punished for not opening his mouth when the bridegroom asked him where his garb was. He had faith enough to enter into the wedding ceremony but his failure to act on his own merit and explain why he was without a garb was enough to damn him. It's clear to me in the Bible that those who stand by faith alone and offer no kind of charity, decency, or hospitality to their brothers are most certainly unfit for the Kingdom.

By that same token; however, we can also consider the meaning of Paul's words, the parables, and also Jesus' statement and really look to see that if you don't put faith to action it's not really true faith, if your actions are counter to your belief it is not true faith, and likewise, no matter what you say, Christ knows your heart and knows whether or not you have true faith.

So really, it's a matter of interpretation and whether you prefer a more conservative stance or more liberal.

Also gummy, if I didn't read scripture there's no way I could argue the points. :P

I tend to think of protestants like democrats/libertarians and Catholics/Orthodoxy more like traditional Republicans.
RMAN4443 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
gummy jones wrote:
#64 I was raised Catholic, studied the catechism, considered becoming a deacon, etc but realized I had never actually read the Bible. It struck me that I considered myself a Christian but had never read the Word. I set out to do just that and things finally made sense. It has to be grace alone through faith alone otherwise the need for a savior is diminished. If we can get to God through works, or being a "good" person, etc then why the heck did God send His son to die?

(I'm not suggesting that you haven't read the Bible just that literally zero of the most devout Catholics I know haven't)

Gummy, I was also raised Catholic in a very non-religious household. I went to Catholic school for four years. I was an alter boy for 3 years. I'm not really very religious in my life now.........I do try to be a good person and follow the-"Do Unto Others as You would Have Others Do Unto You" creed.
I have read the Bible pretty much cover to cover 3 times in my life to try to get a better understanding of my faith....despite the non religious lifestyle, I do "Believe".
My biggest problem with the Bible is the fact that I went to Catholic School............I had religion class for 5th period, and then for 6th period I had science class.........In Religion class they would teach us that God created the earth in 7 days and all the miracles that took place until He rested on the seventh day. Then 45 minutes later I would be in science class and they would be teaching me that the galaxy was created in a great explosion and all the scientific ways the earth and a galaxy were created. All this contradiction confused my Jr. High School brain.
The other thing that caused major confusion was all the "alternate facts" in the Bible. The nuns in Religion class would teach us some of the hidden codes in the Bible to make it easier for us to understand. One of the things we were taught was that in the Bible , if it says someone "knew" another person, it meant they had had sex. So I was taught that Mary was a Virgin, but then in another section, the Bible states "that Mary Knew Joseph"......it also states in another section that "Joseph knew other men".........I'm not trying to be contrary, this is what I was taught in Catholic School.
Despite all this, I do still believe in my faith and God.......I believe there is a "Higher Power" and for me that is important.
The fact I'm trying to make is that reading the Bible is important as a Catholic, but "understanding" the Bible is more important. There are books available that help interpret the Bible into "Modern day speech" to help better understand the Good Book........when you read the Bible with an interpreter(Bible Dictionary), you may find some of the stories are a little different than what you thought.

No Sarcasm Intended
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I think your Nun had an agenda... the work 'Knew' does not mean 'having sex with' in any interpretation I've ever heard of or read... gotta throw the BS flag on her... Not talking
delta1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
I know better than to get into the middle of a discussion about women and religion...
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
you sound like a wise man... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
i have nothing against Catholicism and hope that i didnt come across as having a bone to pick. i am thankful for my Catholic family and am blessed to have become very close friends with a few Catholic priests who are incredibly enlightened thinkers who have served as spiritual role models and sounding boards through the journey of my faith. i dont think of myself as Catholic or Protestant but rather feel i am a sinner following the Biblical roadmap of sanctification. not sure i will ever arrive in this lifetime.

i think what you are getting at is that various words have various meanings from the original greek to english, etc. likewise, translations can either be literal, word for word or on an idea by idea basis.
there certainly is a difference. it is possible for Jesus to be born of a virgin (conceived of the Holy Spirit) but that does not mean that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life (in fact that would be quite unbelievable). to the best of my knowledge, there are no hidden codes within the Bible.

concerning creation vs evolution, the same debate has raged for centuries. i cannot prove a God and someone else cannot prove macro evolution. we both have the same evidence and we have to make a judgement call as to where we think it leads. in a secular culture bent on instant gratification you can assume that a worldview without an all powerful, perfectly loving and perfectly just God is more attractive to many. we like to think we are both educated and evolved but if you read classical philosophy (theist and atheist) you will see that our arguments are less articulate versions of what has been said countless times before by people such as augustine, etc.

skepticism is great, i just encourage people not to stop at doubt but rather, to also doubt their doubt.
gummy jones Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
delta1 wrote:
I know better than to get into the middle of a discussion about women and religion...


hold my beer and watch this...
delta1 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
go git em gummy!
tailgater Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
So a vegan, a cross-fitter, and an atheist walk into the room.

I know, because they told me within the first 5 minutes.


tonygraz Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I'm sending yogurt's wife a sympathy card.
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
tailgater wrote:
So a vegan, a cross-fitter, and an atheist walk into the room.

I know, because they told me within the first 5 minutes.





Laugh
RMAN4443 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
I think your Nun had an agenda... the work 'Knew' does not mean 'having sex with' in any interpretation I've ever heard of or read... gotta throw the BS flag on her... Not talking


Well drafter you got me doubting myself.........was this just bull, or something I misunderstood.......I hoped it wasn't that because this fact, for some reason, had stuck itself in my head for all these years....

Well after a little googling Sister Esther Marie was right on, "Knowing" in the Bible sense does mean having sex. Here is a page I found, but there are lots more. http://kingsenglish.info/2011/01/24/knowing-in-the-biblical-sense/

Just think, after all these years, that fancy parochial school edumacation finally paid off.........I had the inside scoop on Sex in the Bible..........Mom woulda been Proud Laugh
DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Not talking
frankj1 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I was also under the impression that "had knowledge of her" meant had intimate relations with her...perhaps why people jokingly say I "knew her...in the Biblical way".

Obviously I am unable to quote, but I do recall phrases like "they lied down together and had knowledge of each other".
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Nope.. you can't interpret and change meanings of words at will... Not talking
Buckwheat Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
Nope.. you can't interpret and change meanings of words at will... Not talking


Why not? It's done all the time with biblical quotes. Sarcasm
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Just remember, God controls the lightning... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Drafter "knows" a lot of things and the sheep are nervous.
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I think you guys have been to too many parades... Not talking
tailgater Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
RMAN4443 wrote:
Well drafter you got me doubting myself.........was this just bull, or something I misunderstood.......I hoped it wasn't that because this fact, for some reason, had stuck itself in my head for all these years....

Well after a little googling Sister Esther Marie was right on, "Knowing" in the Bible sense does mean having sex. Here is a page I found, but there are lots more. http://kingsenglish.info/2011/01/24/knowing-in-the-biblical-sense/

Just think, after all these years, that fancy parochial school edumacation finally paid off.........I had the inside scoop on Sex in the Bible..........Mom woulda been Proud Laugh


I knew it!

teedubbya Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
I knew it!




Caitlin?
Stinkdyr Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Unleash the wild boars!!

fog
RMAN4443 Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Genesis 4:1

“And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.”

quick quote from Genesis............there are many others if you look



Judges 19:25
But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

One more^

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?q=knew&page=2&order=&bsec=&qte=


Lots more info here^^^
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