America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 7 years ago by Stinkdyr. 67 replies replies.
2 Pages<12
Melania Trump: The unusual, traditional next First Lady
victor809 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Why would you make the leap from suggesting racism exists to stating that America is inherently racist. You're even reading extra into words you're putting in her mouth.

Second... yes...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~japhill/sp802.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiJ_8eD8NPRAhVJwFQKHbzAChM4ChAWCCUwBA&usg=AFQjCNF8X_Cjkis9xH2ZQyrOtFoDLJZZvA&sig2=dHxtljpLvL-ExT2WIqptwg
For any socioeconomic level, minorities are more likely to be victims of homicide.

Finally... we're getting to the root of the problem. Someone once told you to suck it up and your fee fees are hurt. And once your brother had a bad interaction with cops (we all know the difference between statistics and a single incident right?)

And finally. How could you possibly think she's inciting racism? She didn't rally up some group. Whites didn't become more disenfranchised... blacks didn't start demanding any more rights because of it. Honestly the only people who even seemed to notice that statement were white people who somehow were afraid it was going to incite riots.
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
There was 1200% more riots under the Obama administration than any other. .. it's all over the internets... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
victor809 wrote:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~japhill/sp802.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiJ_8eD8NPRAhVJwFQKHbzAChM4ChAWCCUwBA&usg=AFQjCNF8X_Cjkis9xH2ZQyrOtFoDLJZZvA&sig2=dHxtljpLvL-ExT2WIqptwg

Not sure what point you were trying to make posting this link. I read the first few paragraphs which noted that blacks are more likely to be homicide victims because of among other reasons they grow up in crime ridden neighborhoods. I don't think it can be successfully argued that cities have crime problems unique to them that don't also exist in similar sized cities. In fact, I don't San Francisco is the only place where people piss on light bulbs or crap in the street. For my experience in law enforcement, I think I can safely say at least 75% of young black homicidal victims are killed due to 1) non-violent drug trade, 2) the inability to solve conflict using peaceful means, and 3) retaliation.

That being the case, one has to reach deep within the dark recesses of their anal cavity to retrieve a correlation between this and some racist phenomenon. This is nothing more than a Non sequitur conclusion to deflect from the truth. I suggest more would come from blacks deciding that they will no longer tolerate this behavior in their community and demand higher standards of decency.

In addition, it's a shame "their" President is blind to this and has left a legacy of commuting sentences of some major drug traffickers while maintaining a dishonest narrative that these people were non-violent offenders.

This is an article about one of the most prolific drug traffickers in Baton Rouge's history whose life sentence was commuted by Obama and released having served just 19 years.

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/article_187d11e6-a8e6-5eb5-b93c-958be4b4f6ee.html
wrote:
A federal probation officer had estimated that Milton was responsible for bringing 210 pounds of powder and crack cocaine to Baton Rouge from 1992 to 1996, but the judge who sentenced Milton in 1997 said the actual amount surely topped that estimate.


Understanding how drug trafficking and murder are more often than not mutually inclusive, one can only wonder how many homicides were committed on the order of this non-violent offender.

So keep up the deflection of what is the real cause of the disparity in racial makeup of homicide victims, but it really is a hollow argument.
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... both you and tail need to realize that saying there is a different experience is not saying that it is necessarily all due to racism. In fact statistics don't say why. Because they are stats.

If you dig into the article you'll find that again, blacks are more likely to be killed than whites at any socioeconomic level. Yes, low economic status has an impact. But when they regress against education and income they find they still are dying more often than whites. In fact, they find that the same corrections for socioeconomic state which normalize the numbers for Latinos and other minorities doesn't normalize the numbers for blacks.

These are just numbers. And I'm guessing if the numbers applied to you or me we'd care more about them. That's probably what she was referencing.. she cared about it and I'm guessing a lot of other people did too.

Why hate her for pointing it out? It isn't like she made alternative facts up and started running with it.

As for the drugs... we all know the drug trade kills lots. But that sort of thing gets corrected for when you regress for education and economics.
Abrignac Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
victor809 wrote:
... both you and tail need to realize that saying there is a different experience is not saying that it is necessarily all due to racism. In fact statistics don't say why. Because they are stats.

If you dig into the article you'll find that again, blacks are more likely to be killed than whites at any socioeconomic level. Yes, low economic status has an impact. But when they regress against education and income they find they still are dying more often than whites. In fact, they find that the same corrections for socioeconomic state which normalize the numbers for Latinos and other minorities doesn't normalize the numbers for blacks.

These are just numbers. And I'm guessing if the numbers applied to you or me we'd care more about them. That's probably what she was referencing.. she cared about it and I'm guessing a lot of other people did too.

Why hate her for pointing it out? It isn't like she made alternative facts up and started running with it.

As for the drugs... we all know the drug trade kills lots. But that sort of thing gets corrected for when you regress for education and economics.


Like you said the trouble with statistics, is that they really don't tell a story. In particular, they have no context. For example, for decades the presidential administrations have used a statistic to bastardize the state of employment in the US. The statistic they use is new unemployment claims to falsely illustrate the labor markets. But, you and I both know this to be a lie. This statistic so cavalierly tossed about isn't a true representation of unemployment since it excludes people who are underemployed, people who have the resources quit a job to look for another, people on sabbatical, etc....

Therefore, I won't argue the fact that statistically speaking blacks are more likely to be killed than whites. I would guess that to be true based on what I experienced in 12 years of law enforcement. But, if one wants to split hairs that in of itself is racist. My problem is this. Her and her husband have constantly thrown the race card. They have used statistics at every opportunity to say that blacks are oppressed by whites. If you don't see that, I'm going to argue; it's pointless. But when taken in the context of the greater narrative that her and her husband have espoused this becomes yet another racist card being dealt.
victor809 Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You and tail have made this claim that they are throwing race cards around. I haven't seen it.
I don't feel like they've told me that they're oppressed by me. I also don't feel like they've been telling blacks anything they don't already know about their lives.

It's just one of those examples of sensitive people like tail getting offended easily and needing to retreat to their safe space to complain about it on a cigar board.... ;)
Abrignac Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
victor809 wrote:
You and tail have made this claim that they are throwing race cards around. I haven't seen it.
I don't feel like they've told me that they're oppressed by me. I also don't feel like they've been telling blacks anything they don't already know about their lives.

It's just one of those examples of sensitive people like tail getting offended easily and needing to retreat to their safe space to complain about it on a cigar board.... ;)


I'm not going to debate this any further with you since both of us would rather argue with a brick wall than to concede a micron. Gonna be a hell of a ride in May. d'oh!

Beer


teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I have no doubt that on average black men have a different experience with and view of the police. That doesn't mean all black men nor does it mean all white men have had no bad experiences with them. (I have)

When I met my wife I thought she was full of $hit when she spoke of some of the discrimination she faced being Hispanic in a predominantly white area. Then I started seeing how she was treated differently than me in similar situations. Everything from police to service at stores or restaurants

It was sometimes subtle but constantly around and did shape attitude. It happens enough I was hesitant to move to where I am now because I thought it would be worse in the less diverse town I moved to.

I'm not sure of the cause but there seems to be a more aggressive form that seems energized lately. Things like the other day a couple rednecks looking at her while saying they can't wait until they start sending "them" home. I was with her and told them I hope she gets sent home soon because i was feeling horny.

It didn't matter that she's Puerto Rican. They were morons but commonly encountered morons.

Don't underestimate what others experience daily just because you don't experience it or wouldn't do it. And it need not be race based. It could be age or other.

Every day. Drip drip drip. Don't feel sorry for my wife. She doesn't. She's a well paid, well put together professional who outclasses the very idiots making that remark towards her. The irony was laughable. It's also not an excuse to not thrive or discriminate against others to even it out.

But there is a consistent level of discrimination out there every day and it does form others views. Rather than ignoring, disagreeing, or making fun of how others think maybe it's constructive to consider why they do. There may be merit and you might actually accomplish something.
delta1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Well put, TW. It's extremely difficult to describe racism until you have experienced it, continuously, and can't do anything about it. It can be like an illness, but one that can be overcome with short memories, positive attitude, setting and achieving goals, surrounding oneself with loving people and avoidance of racist persons. Although I have experienced it (most hurtfully when I was a kid and constantly told to go back where I came from...I was f'n born here), I've enjoyed a truly blessed life and am content with who I am. Most importantly, I believe that I am extremely fortunate that through some accident, I was born in America to two people who came from some place else. My father was in the US Air Force during WWII, and was proud of that, despite our heritage denying him full benefits as a naturalized citizen. This is a great country, and I would not choose to live anywhere else.
Abrignac Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
delta1 wrote:
Well put, TW. It's extremely difficult to describe racism until you have experienced it, continuously, and can't do anything about it. It can be like an illness, but one that can be overcome with short memories, positive attitude, setting and achieving goals, surrounding oneself with loving people and avoidance of racist persons. Although I have experienced it (most hurtfully when I was a kid and constantly told to go back where I came from...I was f'n born here), I've enjoyed a truly blessed life and am content with who I am. Most importantly, I believe that I am extremely fortunate that through some accident, I was born in America to two people who came from some place else. My father was in the US Air Force during WWII, and was proud of that, despite our heritage denying him full benefits as a naturalized citizen. This is a great country, and I would not choose to live anywhere else.



Al, I'm old enough to remember this. When I was in the 3rd or 4th grade two brothers, Victor who is my age his younger brother Patrick, moved to my hometown and enrolled in my grammar school. There father, an American, met their Japanses mother when his company worked on an infrastructure project in Japan.

They were treated badly by many students. They were called Japs and chased around the playground by boys their age, embarrassed to say me included. When my mother who was a teacher at the school found out I took one my numerous ass whippings. My father who fought in the Korean War schooled me on discrimination as well as the gallant service and lives lost by soldiers or Japanese and Native American descent. I humbly apologized to both boys and became friends with Victor. In sixth grade we partnered on a science project where he picked up my slack and we made a A.

I guess my point is this happened and we moved beyond it.
delta1 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Gon' Fishing
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Abrignac wrote:
Al, I'm old enough to remember this. When I was in the 3rd or 4th grade two brothers, Victor who is my age his younger brother Patrick, moved to my hometown and enrolled in my grammar school. There father, an American, met their Japanses mother when his company worked on an infrastructure project in Japan.

They were treated badly by many students. They were called Japs and chased around the playground by boys their age, embarrassed to say me included. When my mother who was a teacher at the school found out I took one my numerous ass whippings. My father who fought in the Korean War schooled me on discrimination as well as the gallant service and lives lost by soldiers or Japanese and Native American descent. I humbly apologized to both boys and became friends with Victor. In sixth grade we partnered on a science project where he picked up my slack and we made a A.

I guess my point is this happened and we moved beyond it.

I thought they were good in math, not science.
Live and learn....J/K
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I was thinking the same thing LOL
DrafterX Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
“first ­homeschool shooter.”

what does that even mean..?? Think
tonygraz Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Victor and Abrignac went to school together ?
delta1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Kinda fits: "to the Victor go the spoils" right?...but I thought Victor was a very light-skinned black guy...
Stinkdyr Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Mr. Jones wrote:
Man!!!!

She looked...
As
Ricardo Montibon
Says...

"Juuuu luuuke MAAAAARRRRVELLLOUS"

She looked like a SUPER model ( which she is)
On that Inaugural podium....

THAT COAT WAS GORGEOUS...
THE HAIRDO TOTAL CLASS...
MELANIA
REMINDED ME OF JACKIE KENNEDY...BIG-TIME.



Plz, do not insult Melanoma that way.

Herfing
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12