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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 2:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
HERE ARE SOME
70963.jpg
octowings Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 3:49 AM EST
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 390
Anyone got a GPS reading on that location?...octo
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Yet Alec Baldwin, Sean Penn, and Susan Sarandon would lead you to believe that we're war mongers looking to pick on "little guys"!

I believe their hatred of ANY freedom is quite apparent.

Glass parking lot.
Lowman Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:08 AM EST
Joined: 12-03-2002
Posts: 6,982
Drop a bomb on those bastards!!!

I live approx 15 miles outside NYC. Worked in Hackensack, NJ at the time of 9/11, went to the roof of our 9 story bldg. and saw the towers burning. Eerie sight when the 1st tower fell. To see one tower and a big dust cloud was scary!
I see the "new" skyline everyday. Not the same w/o the towers. Miss them !! :o(

Low
CJBully Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:14 AM EST
Joined: 07-31-2002
Posts: 753
Because of their dress, they appear to be Hindus. India maybe? I Can't be sure.
Lowman Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:22 AM EST
Joined: 12-03-2002
Posts: 6,982
Don't matter where they live... That's SICK !!!
Sonny_LSU Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:36 AM EST
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
Anyone notice the white devil in the background? Though you may think me too open minded on this one, I do believe they are Hindus and that may very well be some sort of tribute that someone saw and took it WAY out of context. It is possible. Still, see the white fella in the back ground?
RDC Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:48 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
With all of the new concepts for rebuilding that site, I would like to see them rebuilt the way they were.

The new desings are too funky. People/designers tried to hard to come up with something that they felt would be a trubute.

I say rebuild them the way there were.
plabonte Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 4:49 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
To me it looks like a fraudulent picture. Like the sand sculpture was superimposed over a bunch of olive skinned people. Aren't most sand sculptures on the ground at foot level? This on is much higher. Hate propoganda if you ask me.
Tobasco Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 5:38 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Are these Muslims, Iraqies or Arabs? Either way its sick!!
Charlie Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 6:49 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
The white **** in the background looks like Alec Baldwin without his hair dyed! Anyway, this is sick whether fake or not!

Charlie
iquester Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 7:04 AM EST
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 179
Picture is a hate-mongering fake, guys....
It plays into our fears and prejudice against
anyone who looks Afghani or Iraqi or Iranian...

These are not even Moslems but Hindus...
A peace-loving religion, btw.
Notice the "third eye" on the woman to the left.

It doesn't take much to ignite our deep seated prejudices does it? I lost a good friend in 9-11, and have friends in the service in the Gulf.

I certainly believe Bin Laden and Saddam should be held accountable, but let's be clear about the real enemies... Certainly not a bunch of Indian or Pakistani people in a trumped up photo on a website, who happen to be darker-skinned than most of us.

Sheesh, how about a reality check on our racism.

Mike Gardner (iquester)
Charlie Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 7:40 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Of course it is a fake! There are tons of these things made/enhanced, etc by people who love to play to those fears and prejudices!

Charlie
Lowman Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 9:03 AM EST
Joined: 12-03-2002
Posts: 6,982
Fake pic or not, SOMEONE had to make the sand sculpture!!! That's F'n SICK !!
jjohnson28 Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 10:13 AM EST
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Come on Rick,I mean really? Sheesh
octowings Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 10:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 390
Anger makes people see less clearly. I'm sure all people on this post would agree. I'm guilty of this, but the picture does strike a nerve.

I'll tell you what I thought when I saw this picture. The day after 9/11 an Egyption newspaper on their front page had a picture of the towers burning and in bold letters written was "Bullseye".

Anger does make us see less clearly, but we must not go blind! Hey, I've been guilty...octo
Spiny Norman Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
Because of their dress, they appear to be Hindus. India maybe? I Can't be sure.

The ones with the turbans are Sikhs. For more information,

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sikhism.htm
ferdiex2 Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 09-03-2002
Posts: 5
you never have a hand gernade when ya need one!!
justforfun Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 797
I agree with Sonny
CJBully Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Jan 30 2003, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-31-2002
Posts: 753
Spiny,
I wasn't being intolerant but trying to point out that they weren't Arabic/Muslim before the lynch mob assembled. I got my eastern religions mixed up, sorry.
rck_1 Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 4:12 AM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
Sand Sculpter: Sudarshan Patnaik
Beach Festival in Orissa, India

http://www.attrition.org/gallery/politics/bin_laden/tn/sand_castle.jpg.html

Lets Nuke these sick Bast#@$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Charlie Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 7:13 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
So this is not a "postup" or cut and paste job! Then in that case, find them all and tar and feather the bastards!

Sick people no matter what race, color, creed, etc!!!

Charlie
iquester Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 8:06 AM EST
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 179
Could have been a memorial with positive intentions as well -- there have been more pictures, T-shirts and sculptures of 9-11 on Ebay and offered by retailers than I can count.

Since there is no article describing the context, I am assuming the presence of turbans and dark skin is the big difference to some of us... Is that correct? If not why not raging response to all the other "art?"

Or are we just calling for a nuclear bombing of all non-caucasian artists who depict that horrific event, on the basis of our unsubtantiated assumptions?

Just mho,

Mike Gardner (iquester)

btw: I am a believer in the current appropriate military response to terrorism and the theory of a just war, if unavaoidable, in case someone wants to cast aspersions on my politics.
rck_1 Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 8:14 AM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
iquester,
I agree with your comment that it could be a memorial with honorable intentions.

I am also a believer in the current appropriate military response being an 8 year veteran of the USMC and desert storm!

jdrabinski Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 9:31 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Mike,

Thanks for your posts. I was reading the previous posts and seriously thinking about abandoning Cbid for good. Who knows what this is supposed to mean? Intention means everything. And, for anyone who knows anything about Indian politics, there is NO love for Muslims, so the assumptions about intent are as ignorant as they are racist.

I looked at the stamp Mag posted, and thought that, without the american flag in the background, that could easily have been a stamp made by al-quaeda. The line between offensive and memorial is in the details of intent. I hope everyone who made assumptions does some soul-searching about their response.

Further, the responses (assuming they were serious, and not just blowing off steam) show how thin our belief in freedom of expression can be. Applies only to us?

John
Tobasco Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
John

I didnt notice that these people may be Hindu's. I do know that there is no love lost between Muslims & Hindu's.

To me the color of ones skin makes no difference. I live in the bay area where there are all races working together everyday. Some of my best customers are middle eastern folks and Hindu's.

If this is a tribute to the men & women who lost their lives, then I'm sorry. If is a celebration of the event on 9-11, then it is sick. They all could be any color or race, it doesnt matter to me.

I just dont want to be lumped in, with what may be considered racists comments. That wasnt my intention.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Mag
octowings Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 10:58 AM EST
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 390
Just wanted to restate my previous post!

Anger makes people see less clearly. I'm sure all people on this post would agree, but we must not go blind! Hey, I've been guilty...octo
plabonte Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
I find it very interesting that so many think this sand sculpture is offensive. Yet on a different picture thread of a stamp picturing the buildings smoking many people think its a great stamp.

I'm just curious what makes one patriotic and the other sick and twisted. Can some of you who have posted on this and the other thread clarify?
CJBully Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 07-31-2002
Posts: 753
excellent question...
Spiny Norman Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
CJBULLY,
It never crossed my mind that you ment anything derrogatory by it.
Tobasco Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
plabonte, You must be kidding right?

Its obvious that at least some here, including myself, looked at this as a group of people celebrating the tradgedy! It may or may not be correct. Thats why I decided to clarify my position.

The stamp is obviously a tribute to those who died, and the families of them. That is for sure!

One picture isnt clear but the other is very clear as to the meaning.

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Rick I know you are out there! Why dont you tell us what its supposed to mean since you posted it!

Mag
plabonte Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Magnafide, I am not kidding at all. I'm genuinely curious. And your statement does make sense and I thank you for your clarification.

However, I'm still not sure why one is a tribute and one is "Celebrating". I don't see anyone in the picture cheering, or making gestures, or anything. They are just standing calmly. And again we don't know the intent of the sculpture. Perhaps the people lost some loved ones and it is a memorial (assuming that the picture isn't a fake, which it is).

Had the picture been of a bunch of white people I wonder if the reaction posted by some would have been the same. Just something to think about.
Tobasco Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 12:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

plabonte, to be honest I dont know what the reaction would have been by others.

I know that if its a celebration of the tradgedy, then I dont care what race, color or religion they are. Its just wrong.

If we could get a clear understanding of what the sand sculpture represents, then all of us could give clearer and more accurate opinions.

Until that happens its hard to compare the two.

Mag

Todog Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
I think Rick is sitting back right now with a cigar reading all of the responses to his post with intrigue! With his hook, line and sinker post, he is able to read and study a lot about how all of us respond and our beliefs and true feelings!
jdrabinski Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 3:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Mag,

Of course I wasn't lumping you in with any racists. Your taste in cigars is too good for you to have such attitudes, frankly. Now, a communist, what with the Cubans and all that, well, that's another story...ha ha.

My point was that the imagery in the stamp and in this sand castle are the same. But people took this sand castle to be an affront to morality. Why? The presuppositions probably came from assumptions about them because of their skin color. That doesn't mean that people who make such an assumption are KKK members.

However, it should provoke some introspection, asking one's self the question "why did I assume that?" I mean, damn, with all the racially provocative images since 9/11, this assumption is practically drilled into us. We can't overcome this assumption, whose consequences (even if not intent) are racist (punishing a race of people because of that alone, not because of anything they've done), unless we are honest about quick associations and judgments we make. And it is OK to acknowledge that. Seriously, we only become better people when we recognize a slip, a fault, and then work to overcome that. That shows character, after all, when we admit that we made a bad assumption and work to prevent it from happening again.

That's a long post. Sorry 'bout that. But this stuff is important.

My 2cents.

John
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 5:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Todog

in fishing terms, i believe it is called chumming.

Todog Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Jan 31 2003, 6:18 PM EST
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
Rick, Im not much of a fisherman but it was fun watching everyone take the bait! You have an amazing talent for stimulating conversation here at CB!
Charlie Offline
#39 Posted: Sat, Feb 1 2003, 8:01 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick, go light up a Bad Frog and enjoy!

Racist or not, this is not what I would call people "mourning" the events of 9/11! Sorry!

Site them in with a GPS!

Charlie
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