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Talking about adding to the national debt while Trump was in office:

While Trump was in office the national debt climbed by:
2018 - $779 billion budget deficit - First year Trump sponsored tax cut package affected budget
2019 - $984 billion budget deficit
2020 - $3.1 trillion budget deficit - Beginning of $3.1T in COVID-19 related additional supplemental spending.
2021 - $2.8 trillion budget deficit

During the Trump years
The National Debt increased by $7.67T.
Supplement COVID-19 spending was $3.1T
Difference between increase in National Debt & supplemental COVID-19 spending was $4.55T


The four COVID-19 related Spending Laws signed into law by Trump
* The Families First Coronavirus Response Act. It was signed into law on March 17, 2020. It’s estimated cost was $350B.
* The Coronavirus Preparedness and Response Supplemental Appropriation. It was signed into law on March 20, 2020. It’s estimated cost was $8.3B.
* The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act). It was signed into law on March 27, 2020. It’s estimated cost was $2.2T.
* The Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021 (Divisions M&N). It was signed into law on December 27, 2020. It’s estimated cost was $900B.

At this point it should be fairly clear to see the two largest reasons that the national debt increased more while Trump was in office than during any other four-year Presidential term.

The primary reason was tax cuts without a corresponding decrease in government spending. That added $4.55 T to the national debt. The second reason was the $3.1T in supplemental COVID-19 spending.

As long as we continue to write checks for items, we cannot afford the debt will continue to spiral out of site. I'm no fan of paying any more taxes than is absolutely necessary. But, if we want to reduce the debt it's going to take a combination of sunsetting the Trump era tax cuts and significant across the board spending cuts.

I remember the first day of my first college Economics class. I walked in and sat down then looked at the dry erase board. There was one word written on it. It made no sense. That word was TANSTAAFL

By the time my first day in that class ended it became perfectly clear what that word meant.

T - There
A - Ain't
N - No
S - Such
T - Thing
A - As
A - A
F- Free
L - Lunch

Izon was a good egg.
TW was the fence post, not a lefty. Neither was Ben.
Yes Drywalldog! He gave as good as he got he struck me as more of a traditional D and not a modern version.
Yes PDX….he was a good egg too, we touched base a couple times and either he was busy or was afraid of the candy in my van the couple times I was up his way and had time.
Fiddler is another good egg.
Zombie is why I quit hopping on the zoom.
Tried to meet Robert when I was there scheduling didn’t work, same with DMV and I even texted him pics of my wide stance in the SLC airport stall. Thankfully LHD saved the day and asked me to meet him at the Honeypot bar to enjoy a petite corona.

This thread has morphed from we need to bomb Iran now to how we’re gonna fix the national debt to how many lefties have fled from CigarBid.

1. War is a poor use of capital.

2. Neither Republicans or Democrats will ever even balance the federal budget until the threat of eminent financial collapse.

3. Do we actually know the list of demands from the vanquished lefties? Will they come back if we all agree to vote for Biden or Haley or is it more complicated where we have to agree to turn CigarBid into a leftie echo chamber to prevent it from becoming a rightie echo chamber? Do the righties have to leave? I’m just trying to get a handle on the starting point for negotiations. Do they want to bomb Iran?

I’m more than willing to lead the negotiations that could lead to their return. Standard consulting fees would apply. If they are all off on the Zoom meeting lamenting the horrors they experienced here I could login and perhaps have an exploratory conversation.

I was prepared to skewer you whence we met, but you are so dreamy that I was instantly disarmed.
Still one of the most memorable days we have ever been treated to...coincidently, gonna watch the game at Bonni and Rick's house today.

Two or so years seems accurate for the most recent hit. Pretty much too late for a bunch of guys. The ship sailed for this and other reasons.

One important reason is gender-identity related opinions and moral mandates. At least three people (maybe four) quit posting because they have children who are gay, considering transitioning or are transitioning. They got sick of the intolerance (after years of being welcomed posters- some a decade or longer).

So too, I believe, is that virtually every single gay or lesbian has been run off.

And, then there are some other major, fixable, issues. that have lead to the drop-off. For example those who tend to jump on a noobs' first posts and give that person $hit such that they never come back.

I'll let the rest of what I observe go for now...

That person would be generally unelectable.

That’s what makes you a pillow of our community.
Never praying a pond the weakness of others.
Despite “lefty” sending you a cyst and diseased order……

From my perspective them leaving because of Ad Hom attacks is hypocritic on their part. Personal attacks towards me, and many other forum members, from them, was pretty much my first five yrs here.

Victor, TW, BGZ and others constantly attacked me for my thoughts on medical freedom and for my principles, and everything else under the sun. Your boy Spey named me "Qbert".

In the end though, I didn't bend the knee, the wife and I stood on principle concerning "covid", and it cost us our jobs and a lot of other things. What did TW lose, other than respect, when Bucky pounded him into the ground? He got what he dished out.

A bully doesn't have any problem dishing out the hits, up until the moment they get hit back. So, I have no sympathy for them. And like I said, I like TW and BGZ. I wish they would come back.

I don't say anything to anybody online, or in these forums, that I wouldn't say in person.

Good for you.

I don't agree with personal attacks against or "pigeon-holing" anyone here regardless of their beliefs. But, that is the norm around here now.

And, there is nothing hypocritical about those specifically mentioned not receiving enough pleasure posting and reading here such that they left and highly likely will never come back.

But, it's really not about them. It's about the overall drop-off here, this time over the last 2-3 years...



“I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It”
Voltiere.

So when did you start debating? I must have missed that.

I get that a lot.

It was my pleasure to ferry you, TLC, Bonni and Rick around San Diego Bay in my little fishing boat. I absolutely enjoyed it. The commentary on the naval presence was just a side bonus of being a navy man. Prolly the closest you've been to navy ships, eh?

Had we more time I might have coulda given you the 8track treatment and had one of my Navy Chief buddies give you a tour of a combat ship and hand you a coin.

Started with George Floyd, Covid, the BLM, LBGT+, Woke. It started out with sharing knowledge, then it turned into a power trip. It rolled from about advocacy, to equality, the CRT, and then the legalized silencing and firing of white straight, Christian males for pushing back- trying to get back to equality.

Add all that to the failure of our institutions, a hard left turn, economic uncertainty, and people not being able to live there life like they could before and people started cracking.

I’m just guessing.

go on ahead, call if you ever get back to the present

It still sounds like we are calling for wiping out anyone here that is to the right of a committee-determined acceptable designator.

Can we establish a list of names who need to be expelled so we can make CigarBid fun again and bring back the totally non-liberal non-butthurt people that left? Perhaps a starting point would be to eliminate any MAGA Republican semi-fascists who support Trump. We can do that and let it run for a month and then put together another round of eliminations. I would think that after a few rounds of purging we should be successful at getting this place back to the proper exchange of rational discourse.

I heard Mike Pence can overturn the results of the Super Bowl if he has the courage.

Ya, as a right-wing extremist, I already knew that.

How can ya have PBJ without the peanut butter or the jelly?

How ya gonna have a Resse's Cup without the chocolate and the peanut butter?

How ya gonna have a cheese burger without the beef or cheese?

You can't.

What's upset (by the look of this thread!) some posters that they want the ability to spout garbage and then gaslight you over it later! Then, (when proven blatantly false!) NEVER admit they were wrong. Never take any of the derision and would continue (and HAVE!) in a New York minute! The ones that left...Bye Felecia! The ones that stay...you're here.

PS: Act like a drooling rainman and ramble with the nonsense you're going to get called names. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo. I really do miss Tosh.0.

PSS: We're not solving ANYTHING with listening stations, dark ops prison/interrogation sites, military bases and boots on the ground. Our CIA and now our fabulous FBI are on the record with election meddling not just in foreign nations but right here at home too. Bring the boys back home.

Can I still do a purge list? Come on, pleaseee!

I always said I’d be working for the government running a re-education camp.

You didn’t get where you are today without several corporate purges. C’mon, now.

It seems I vacillate between not G’ing AF what anyone thinks to calling out anyone who posts clearly uninformed nonsense picked up for a biased source. So at face value I don’t want to be in an echo chamber. If I’m wrong, so be it. Otherwise be prepared to defend a viewpoint.

Exactly.
Promote, rather than destroy discourse. Stop hijacking threads.

I’m not seeing a lot of support for bombing Iran yet. How about we bomb Venezuela? They are threatening to attack Guyana.

Why not stand for both? or kneel as you see fit...

Lift Every Voice and Sing was adopted as the “black national anthem” during segregation and more then a decade before the star spangled banner was officially adopted as the US National Anthem…

What happens if you take a knee during the black national anthem..??

By who..??