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Church and State
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tailgater Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
http://www.lowellsun.com/opinion/ci_30734178/groton-dunstable-parents-outraged-over-decision-cancel-choirs

A Massachusetts high school choir performance at Saint Anthony's Basilica in Italy has been cancelled because a local resident complained to the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
They claim that singing in the Basilica is basically an indoctrination of the Christian Faith by the public school system.
The school, lacking both intestinal and financial fortitude to fight the battle, acquiesced and cancelled the performance.

My humble opinion is that anyone opposed to the kids singing in the church because it's a school event should be tarred and feathered before being hanged from the town square.
But maybe I'm being too kind.
Buckwheat Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
tailgater wrote:
http://www.lowellsun.com/opinion/ci_30734178/groton-dunstable-parents-outraged-over-decision-cancel-choirs

A Massachusetts high school choir performance at Saint Anthony's Basilica in Italy has been cancelled because a local resident complained to the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
They claim that singing in the Basilica is basically an indoctrination of the Christian Faith by the public school system.
The school, lacking both intestinal and financial fortitude to fight the battle, acquiesced and cancelled the performance.

My humble opinion is that anyone opposed to the kids singing in the church because it's a school event should be tarred and feathered before being hanged from the town square.
But maybe I'm being too kind.



Why do you hate America and it's constitution so much? fog
ZRX1200 Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
If you don't like it, pull your kid. Those "activists" are pathetic and lower than whale schit.
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 9:57 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
"Of" NOT "From".....
TMCTLT Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:00 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
Why do you hate America and it's constitution so much? fog



So....your good with ONE nosey ass person forcing these kids to miss out on an opportunity of a lifetime?

As far as I' and MANY others are concerned....our children just went through an EIGHT year long indoctrination of " ANYTHING GOES " under your savior Barry Soetoro's and his lovely wife.



Why do you hate FREEDOM so much?


ZRX1200 wrote:
"Of" NOT "From".....



Yeah....a tiny distinction lost on many who support the activists....
Buckwheat Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
TMCTLT wrote:
So....your good with ONE nosey ass person forcing these kids to miss out on an opportunity of a lifetime?

As far as I' and MANY others are concerned....our children just went through an EIGHT year long indoctrination of " ANYTHING GOES " under your savior Barry Soetoro's and his lovely wife.



Why do you hate FREEDOM so much?


Paul

Arguing with someone's worldview/religion/faith is just pointless noise. So I will try to refrain from doing it in the future.fog
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Buckwheat wrote:
Why do you hate America and it's constitution so much? fog


I know you're being sarcastic, but this is apparently the argument and Americans United is prepared to spend lots of money to prove it.
dstieger Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:20 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
As someone who is a pretty staunch supporter of separation arguments and someone who has supported Americans United in the past...and someone who has fallen back on slippery slope arguments before..... all I can say is "What the ****?"

This is pretty asinine. Pick your battles...instead of 'advancing your cause', crap like this tends to have the opposite effect
tonygraz Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:31 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,231
tailgater wrote:
http://www.lowellsun.com/opinion/ci_30734178/groton-dunstable-parents-outraged-over-decision-cancel-choirs
...
My humble opinion is that anyone opposed to the kids singing in the church because it's a school event should be tarred and feathered before being hanged from the town square.
But maybe I'm being too kind.



Sounds like the christian version of ISIS.
TMCTLT Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 10:33 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
Sounds like the christian version of ISIS.




Only to a trolling Moron like yourself. Good lord I feel sorry for anyone close to you....
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Ummm... it appears he was referring specifically to tails desire to tar, feather, and hang anyone opposed to school children singing in a church.

.... wanting to do bodily harm to anyone opposed to your ideology is pretty much what sums up Islamic terrorism.

Where is Tony wrong?

(I mean, other than tail not actually having the stones to go do that)
TMCTLT Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Ummm... it appears he was referring specifically to tails desire to tar, feather, and hang anyone opposed to school children singing in a church.

.... wanting to do bodily harm to anyone opposed to your ideology is pretty much what sums up Islamic terrorism.

Where is Tony wrong?

(I mean, other than tail not actually having the stones to go do that)



Hmmm, didn't know ISIS was into tar and feathering....thought they were most fond of be-heading. Proof once again...always something new to learn. d'oh!

Pretty much...kinda sorta....I'd imagine
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Beheading... hanging...

Do you really care that much whether you're killed one way or the other?

If anything, Beheading seems more humane than having hot liquid tar poured all over you then being publicly executed.

But hey... I'm just pointing out they are both looking for the same end result.
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Our school district actually has the kids sing christian Christmas carols mixed in with non-secular songs and an occasional prequel song about topps or something like that.
dstieger Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
zz or baseball cards?
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:47 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
both... beards and all (except the drummer)

They also perform in churches


I'd have no issue if they learned a Muslim song or two and performed in a temple.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Ummm... it appears he was referring specifically to tails desire to tar, feather, and hang anyone opposed to school children singing in a church.

.... wanting to do bodily harm to anyone opposed to your ideology is pretty much what sums up Islamic terrorism.

Where is Tony wrong?

(I mean, other than tail not actually having the stones to go do that)


If I had stones, I'd throw them!
TMCTLT Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Beheading... hanging...

Do you really care that much whether you're killed one way or the other?

If anything, Beheading seems more humane than having hot liquid tar poured all over you then being publicly executed.

But hey... I'm just pointing out they are both looking for the same end result.



I think we both know the point Tail was making, you ( and Tony ) chose to take it in a literal sense....

ISIS on the other hand...they act on their wicked thoughts, but yeah...they're the same FO SHO
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:



I'd have no issue if they learned a Muslim song or two and performed in a temple.


Not sure how serious you were, or if the comment was intended to make us look at this from the opposing angle.
But these kids aren't going into rural Italy to sing about Christ the Savior in a little known church.
They were planning a trip to well known and historical basilica and the songs are considered "traditional".

Victor is on a tangent because he can't logically oppose the rant.
delta1 Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
We need more understanding and tolerance...a small number of loud mouths shouldn't be allowed to affect the lives of many...majority rules, right?

I'm surprised nobody is criticizing the trip as a waste of taxpayer money for artsy craftsy stuff that should be privately funded...the kids mostly white and upper MC?
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm on a tangent because TCBY is an idiot.

But TW makes a valid point. I'm sure an equivalent Islamic location and set of songs would not be met with similar support.

(Disclaimer I have no problem with a school singing in any sort of religious destination. But good for goose let's eat a goose.... or whatever... you can't complain when they sing other religious hymns in other similarly famous locations)
dstieger Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
IDK all the details of this particular trip, but its been my experience that little tax money goes into these sorts of trips by public school 'groups'....maybe paycheck for music teach and possibly some unis that they'll use for home concerts, too......they force the kids to sell Toblerons and Gummy Bears and Christmas wreaths and other crap....reminds me this is Anti-Slavery month or something, isn't it?
delta1 Offline
#23 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:14 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
"Household Income and Average Income in Groton-Dunstable School District

Median Income Under 25 $50,000
Median Income 25-44 $95,469
Median Income 45-64 $139,827
Median Income Over 65 $86,458" from GDUSD web site

Maybe the parents can afford the trip...would the outrage be the same if it was a choir from an inner city school with minority only kids, say from Chicago?
tailgater Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
We need more understanding and tolerance...a small number of loud mouths shouldn't be allowed to affect the lives of many...majority rules, right?

I'm surprised nobody is criticizing the trip as a waste of taxpayer money for artsy craftsy stuff that should be privately funded...the kids mostly white and upper MC?


The trip is funded through the families, not the school.

You're saying a lot without saying anything.
Do you think the trip crosses the line?
tailgater Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
"Household Income and Average Income in Groton-Dunstable School District

Median Income Under 25 $50,000
Median Income 25-44 $95,469
Median Income 45-64 $139,827
Median Income Over 65 $86,458" from GDUSD web site

Maybe the parents can afford the trip...would the outrage be the same if it was a choir from an inner city school with minority only kids, say from Chicago?



Your attempt to make this racial is pathetic.
tailgater Offline
#26 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:18 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I'm on a tangent because TCBY is an idiot.

But TW makes a valid point. I'm sure an equivalent Islamic location and set of songs would not be met with similar support.

(Disclaimer I have no problem with a school singing in any sort of religious destination. But good for goose let's eat a goose.... or whatever... you can't complain when they sing other religious hymns in other similarly famous locations)


Please tell me about a world famous Islam Mosque and which Traditional songs would be sung.
Your theoretical opposition is childish.
delta1 Offline
#27 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:19 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
ooops...my bad...not a challenge for using taxpayer money...separation of church and state challenge...I should read the article before jumping...

Would the complainers say anything is wrong with the choir performing traditional songs during a Christmas concert?
dstieger Offline
#28 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:21 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
delta, I think Victor already called dibs on 'Tangent!'
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
yep..he's prolly got keyboard skills...me? I'ma pecker...
tailgater Offline
#30 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:27 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
You are what you eat.
Herfing
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
dammmit...mixed nuts for late night snack yesterday...
TMCTLT Offline
#32 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I'm on a tangent because TCBY is an idiot.

But TW makes a valid point. I'm sure an equivalent Islamic location and set of songs would not be met with similar support.

(Disclaimer I have no problem with a school singing in any sort of religious destination. But good for goose let's eat a goose.... or whatever... you can't complain when they sing other religious hymns in other similarly famous locations)




When IDIOTS like YOU can show/ prove that this country was established on Islamic beliefs we can discuss this futher AND futhermore when the countries of the Middle East stop persecuting Christians let alone killing them and make room for " other beleifs perhaps I'll be more open minded.
And to honestly answer your Q....IDGAS where they go or what religion they follow, THAT is up to their parents....not some F'n Atheist on a cigar forum and or whatever the guy who ratted them out is.


tailgater wrote:
Your attempt to make this racial is pathetic.



There does seem to be a pattern of just that....in his defense the race thing under Obummer has worked EXTREMELY well. :-"
Speyside Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So, if through first chuch of atheism held a Christmas concert would it be a silent night?
tailgater Offline
#34 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
ooops...my bad...not a challenge for using taxpayer money...separation of church and state challenge...I should read the article before jumping...

Would the complainers say anything is wrong with the choir performing traditional songs during a Christmas concert?


We don't need any hypothetical comparisons.
The charge was very clear: Singing Christian songs (even so-called traditional ones) in a Christian Basilica (even one of historical prominence) is against the constitutional separation of Church and State.
Which implies that singing those songs in that venue is somehow a promotion by the public school.
Even though only a select few go on the self-funded trip.

I'm curious who on these boards agree with this sentiment.
delta1 Offline
#35 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Isn't there a world famous mosque...ummm.........Mecca?
TMCTLT Offline
#36 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
delta1 wrote:
Isn't there a world famous mosque...ummm.........Mecca?




Don't know about World famous...but there's a YUUUUge one here in Plainfield IN.


delta1 wrote:
ooops...my bad...not a challenge for using taxpayer money...separation of church and state challenge...I should read the article before jumping...

Would the complainers say anything is wrong with the choir performing traditional songs during a Christmas concert?



Complainers are just that....COMPLAINERS( they must be so F'n miserable that they have a NEED to make others like them.

I as a parent had a problem with Christmas concerts our kids sang in No Longer were allowed to sing the same Classic Christmas songs we did growing up. I wonder if other countries wring themselves into pretzel shapes like we do trying tobe EVERYTHING to EVERYONE???
teedubbya Offline
#37 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
Not sure how serious you were, or if the comment was intended to make us look at this from the opposing angle.
But these kids aren't going into rural Italy to sing about Christ the Savior in a little known church.
They were planning a trip to well known and historical basilica and the songs are considered "traditional".

Victor is on a tangent because he can't logically oppose the rant.




I am very serious and simply stating I'd have no issue with our choir singing in any of the mainstream houses of worship in this area (which they do), Islam included. They are part of our interfaith group (Catholic, Protestant, Franks tribe, Muslim, Buddhist etc.) and welcomed as such.

I think the OP is silly and stupid. I'm on the other side. I'm not denigrating where they were to perform in any way shape or form. Quite the opposite.
tailgater Offline
#38 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
Isn't there a world famous mosque...ummm.........Mecca?


If my local school chorus group wanted to fund their own school trip to Mecca I'd have zero issue.

I agree with the funding argument. It just doesn't exist in this case.

These kids WANT to PAY to have the opportunity to sing those songs in that venue.
What is Americans United protecting them from?
bgz Offline
#39 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
If it's privately funded, who GAF.
tailgater Offline
#40 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Plus, I thought mecca was just some wailing wall in the desert where sheep herders let their flocks do their business.

(I kid)

Is it considered a Mosque, or a city?
As a Catholic, my understanding of religious history is horrendous at best.
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Didn't see that in the article. I just read that the Board pulled it and assumed that its prior approval included funding. I'm really a proponent of musical, arts, and cultural programs in our public schools and hated to see many of those programs defunded over the past few decades. That trend continues and I think our society suffers for it.

As for Mecca, it is a city in Saudi Arabia, and has many holy places, including mosques. There is a truly famous and holiest mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem, the Al Aqsa mosque.
tailgater Offline
#42 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
If it were funded through the school (taxpayers) my issue would still not be the religious context. It would simply be inappropriate to send only certain kids on such a costly trip.
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
Plus, I thought mecca was just some wailing wall in the desert where sheep herders let their flocks do their business.

(I kid)

Is it considered a Mosque, or a city?
As a Catholic, my understanding of religious history is horrendous at best.






I'll help you from the perspective of yourreligioncheats.com

the one true religion is Catholicism. King something or other wanted to divorce his hag, get laid by other chicks and didn't want to go through the hassle of hiding it and paying for it through back channels so he created protestants and stuff. Protestants are born cheaters and heritics and stuff.

Islam added a bogus chapter to the bible that is about as real as a science fiction writer worshiping 737s or magic undies and stuff except they are natural born killas.

The prequel is cute and there are things to be respected (after all they form much of the OT, but we all know the NT trumps the old T in terms of what really applies (except when it's inconvenient).

the end


LOL


I keed I keed
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
If it were funded through the school (taxpayers) my issue would still not be the religious context. It would simply be inappropriate to send only certain kids on such a costly trip.



I have no issue with it in any way shape or form.
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:47 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
I'm praying for teedubbya...Pray
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Do Protestants get to marry their cousins..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
LOL

kidding aside I find the history of the various religions as interesting as the teachings themselves.
tailgater Offline
#48 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I have no issue with it in any way shape or form.


Not even a squiggly wisp of smoke provided doggy style?
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Do Protestants get to marry their cousins..?? Huh



Just the southern Baptists... the northern ones hit themselves and stuff to make up for it.
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
Not even a squiggly wisp of smoke provided doggy style?




Nope but thats hawt.
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