America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 7 months ago by Palama. 14 replies replies.
A few general cigar questions for the experts...
Adam_A Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 05-24-2012
Posts: 57
1. Ash:
Why is white ash better than black ash (not to sound cigar racist or anything)? And what makes a cigar burn white as opposed to black? Can a cigar be good even if it burns black?

2. Veins:
Why are veins in a wrapper less sought after compared to wrappers without veins? Do veins prohibit smooth burns? Poorer construction?

3. Ring Gauge:
I know that smaller ring gauges generally have more flavor since there's a greater ratio of wrapper to binder/filler. But in general can it be said that smaller gauges burn better than larger ones?


So, I guess the ideal cigar is smooth and skinny with a nice white ash. Hmm.
Abrignac Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
Adam_A wrote:
1. Ash:
Why is white ash better than black ash (not to sound cigar racist or anything)? And what makes a cigar burn white as opposed to black? Can a cigar be good even if it burns black?

2. Veins:
Why are veins in a wrapper less sought after compared to wrappers without veins? Do veins prohibit smooth burns? Poorer construction?

3. Ring Gauge:
I know that smaller ring gauges generally have more flavor since there's a greater ratio of wrapper to binder/filler. But in general can it be said that smaller gauges burn better than larger ones?


So, I guess the ideal cigar is smooth and skinny with a nice white ash. Hmm.



Smoke color is the result of what is burned. Black smoke usually indicates the presence of chemicals.

Veins burn at a different rate than does lamina (leafy part) the more veiny the wrapper the more the burn will be inconsistent

Smaller ring gauge means lower filler to wrapper ratio so the wrapper taste is more pronounced. Smaller ring gauges tend to produce less smoke all things being equal.
dpnewell Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
1) Ash color has to do with the nutrients in the soil. IMO, the color of the ash has no baring on the quality or taste of the cigar. Others may disagree.

2) Ever cut a cigar, and feel a stink'n vein from the wrapper, every time you go to take a puff? I prefer my wrappers with the least veins possible, but again, a personal preference.

3) Smaller ring sizes tend to have better, more concentrated flavors, but with everything, there are many exceptions.
sd72 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Black or white ash can be just as much from smoking too fast, and humidity issues.
Adam_A Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 05-24-2012
Posts: 57
Thanks for the responses. So, chemicals in ash...like natural chemicals in the ground or man made? Also, I do like a lot of smoke from my cigars. But do larger rings burn more inconsistently?

Yes, I've felt the vein after cutting a cigar. They're pretty firm.
Adam_A Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 05-24-2012
Posts: 57
sd72 wrote:
Black or white ash can be just as much from smoking too fast, and humidity issues.


Thanks. I was coming to that conclusion on my own since I've had a lot of inconsistencies and have tried a number of storage options. Finally I've reached better consistency at around 65/65...but do still have occasional problems with burns.
daveincincy Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
I agrre with most of what has been said.

Small veins are usually ok. Big veins maybe not so much. Bigs veins can be indication of poor quality...like stick and stems in weed. LOL

Not an expert but colpr of ash could be sign of tobacco origin..i.e. nicaraguan (stronger) likely to be darker ash. Thats probably what previous replies suggested (soil types, etc)

Oh, and cbid (IIRC) stopped auctioning "general cigars" and that kinda sucks.
dpnewell Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Adam,
Here's an example. I just smoked an Obsidian PC. Beautiful pure white ash, perfect burn, veinless wrapper, small ring gauge. Everything to make a great smoke, right? Nope, good cheap everyday cigar, but not even close to great.
Lancaster6802 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-20-2011
Posts: 7,255
Pretty much, everyone here is right!
There are allot of different factors in the 3 questions you asked and all have different answers. There is not one specific right or wrong! Each cigar is different.
1 - really isn't important. Just being honest but the answers you got are right, especially concreting country of origin
2 - does play a big roll is the construction and performance of a cigar, but not always. Iv had some really sloppy rugged cigars that were fantastic and iv had some flawless cigars that were garbage.
3 - depends on you the smoker. Find a cigar you like and smoke it in every Vitola offered and you will know what I mean. Each size can change the taste of the same cigar including performance.
Adam_A Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 05-24-2012
Posts: 57
Thanks again for the responses. Nicaragua produces my favorite cigars. But I've never paid much attention as to which burn white vs. black. Some of my favorite cigars are very cheap, too. So, I guess a lot is subjective when it comes to a good cigar; and price isn't always the issue. Aside from flavor, I was just curious what other factors make a cigar good.
illinichaser Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2011
Posts: 5,772
Just a reply on the science side for ash color. White ash indicates more complete combustion(it is beaning more completely). Why its white could be the result of many factors from humidity, tobacco type, what is in the tobacco, etc. . As for how it effects the smoking of the cigar, as usual, the answer is it depends. .

Bottom line smoke what you like, and like what you smoke.
tonygraz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,260
Lancaster6802 wrote:
...
3 - depends on you the smoker. Find a cigar you like and smoke it in every Vitola offered and you will know what I mean. Each size can change the taste of the same cigar including performance.


I've often wondered about the size/shape difference in cigar taste. I can understand the difference in shape and ring size, but the sometimes wide differences between a toro and a churchill of the "same" brand, blend and ring size really make me wonder if there isn't a bit of difference in the tobacco blend.
lannyflaherty Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-18-2013
Posts: 146
illinichaser wrote:
Just a reply on the science side for ash color. White ash indicates more complete combustion(it is beaning more completely). Why its white could be the result of many factors from humidity, tobacco type, what is in the tobacco, etc. . As for how it effects the smoking of the cigar, as usual, the answer is it depends. .

Bottom line smoke what you like, and like what you smoke.


I am not positive, but I do believe, chemistry-wise, that soils very rich in nitrogen and phosphorous will produce a white-ashed tobacco.

tonygraz wrote:
I've often wondered about the size/shape difference in cigar taste. I can understand the difference in shape and ring size, but the sometimes wide differences between a toro and a churchill of the "same" brand, blend and ring size really make me wonder if there isn't a bit of difference in the tobacco blend.


It can be a tweak to the blend to accommodate different vitolas, but I think that is much more prevalent when dealing with ring gauge versus length. With length, it's not that the fillers are altered, it's that the experience is different. When you've got three inches of churchill left, there's four inches of tars, oils, plant waxes, and resins that have accumulated in the remainder of the cigar, thus influencing the flavor profile immensely. A robusto of the same length has got two inches worth of that accumulated goop, and it tastes way different as a result.

When you go into different ring-gauges, not only are there more frequent tweaks to the blend, but the wrapper to filler ratio changes, and the differing shapes of sticks will all affect factors like draw, burn temperature, air/smoke mixture, all of which will again massively influence the experience and flavor profile.

Throwing another wrench in the works is storage. A stick that you just meh'ed at stored at 70% can be the cigar of your dreams at 65%.

Couple that with hundreds of brands and thousands of blends, and basically, we're all f*cked...doomed to pile up boxes forever in our futile attempt to try them all.
Palama Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,696
I like the OP’s avatar. ThumpUp
Users browsing this topic
Guest