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MADNESS
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 8:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-18/109798906786681.xml
lofty1 Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
i agree, rick. the nerve of these people making a story of troops that are fulfilling their obligations to the military. if you're in the guard or reserves, you are a candidate for deployment -- period. if you're too old, you retire. try to keep your eye on the ball, folks. if you're drawing a paycheck as a member of our military, you should be treated like a member of our military. if you're too old to go, you're too old to be an active member of the guard or reserves -- retire. there are many people under the age of 50 that have to leave a corporate responsibility in order to fulfill their military responsibility. Age has nothing to do with that. Age also has nothing to do with missing holidays with your family. I know because I've done it while in my 20s.

Call it madnes if you want. I think it's madness to be a member of the guard or reserves and expect to never be called to duty. That's why they pay you. That's your job.
SteveS Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 8:38 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I'm sure that's what Rick meant
lofty1 Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 8:43 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
perhaps it is. i'm just not prepared to share the same view with rick. it sorta scares me. i've seen his aluminum foil hat -- yikes.
SteveS Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 9:09 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
psst ... lofty ... (whispered)
if this forum doesn't featured audio, I'm sure you'd have detected the presence of my tongue-in-cheek ...
SteveS Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 9:11 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
EDITORS NOTE ... the word DOESN'T should've been stricken from the above post prior to hitting the "send" button ...
An "edit" feature is well and truly needed around here ...
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 9:16 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
SteveS

if it is good enough for bush to screw up syntax, it's good enough for you. we know what you mean.

but in answer to lofty1, see personal answer to follow.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 9:30 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
lofty1

you are absolutely correct.

the problem is we are calling up people that are old and probably have diabetes, cataracts, arthritis, clogged arteries, and all the normal ill's that age is waiting to provide everyone, including you.

do they slide them through the medical because bodies are needed, and i mean that literally, or do they provide free meds for all their needs.

how about cataract surgery. how about bypass surgery. will the government provide that, or will the old codgers need a not from their mothers.

get real. the idea of calling up people near the end of their lives, with limited or no skills that are current, is ludicrous. germany had 10 and 12 year old on the front lines towards the end of the second world war, and we scoffed at that.

now you want to send the guy that wakes up in the morning and takes ten minutes to get his back in line, has trouble peeing because he has an enlarged prostate, and who has to take his bridge or teeth out of the glass and put them in his mouth so he can eat breakfast.

ask your grandfather what he thinks.
lofty1 Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
my grandfathers have actually passed many years ago, but that is beside the point.

my point is that these people, if not eligible for combative service, should not be part of our guard and reserve units. i understand that they are old and out of shape, but old does not equal out of shape. my dad is in his mid fifties and he can still kick my ass. if they aren't fit for duty, they need to be retired or seperated. i don't like the idea of a man becoming a combatant if he can't get up in the morning because of an injury sustained in his 20s in the vietnam war. he's not fit for battle unless he really wants to go. likewise, i don't like the idea of a man drawing a military paycheck if he never plans to be a combatant when the time comes. i was in the military, and i sure didn't want to see hostile fire, but i knew it was always possible. i was very nervous when i was sent to peru with an m-16 as an aircraft mechanic. i never thought i'd see action as a mechanic, but the possibility made itself clear during that trip. i never had to used the gun, but i was in a dangerous place.

if you don't plan to be a combatant, avoid the active duty military, guard, and reserves. don't try to get money for nothing from the DOD.
SteveS Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 10:30 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Rick ...
If the government were DRAFTING 50+ guys with limited (or no) skills who’s near the end of their lives, who have diabetes, cataracts, arthritis, clogged arteries, guys who wake up in the morning and take ten minutes to get their backs in line, guys who have trouble peeing because of an enlarged prostate, and have to take their bridges or dentures out of the glass and put them in their mouths to eat breakfast ... you'd have a point.

BUT ... apparently you overlooked the fact that these guys are not being drafted ... they're ALREADY IN the military ...

Loftys point is well taken ... if they are too infirm to serve, they simply don't belong in the Nat'l Guard or Reserve units that they're using as a way to make an extra few bucks and draw some governement benefits ... it's that simple.
lofty1 Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 10:47 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
thank you, steve. i owe you a beer. now, all you have to do is come to the DFW, TX area to get it. i'll be waiting. : )
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 10:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
guys, you are missing the purpose of the guard for these "senior" citizens. it's like going to the club for them. a place to meet your buddies on a weekend, a place to go camping for a week or so once a year. it's like belonging to the elks or something like that. i don't know what they g3t paid, but i'll bet it is such a small amount, they would go for nothing but the fun of it.

i recognize they are not being drafted the same way i recognize guys being held beyond their time and being sent back into combat after they have conpleted their tour.

when we had the draft during the vietnam war, it was not necessary, the government had a enough bodies to keep the supply of troops going. we "only lost 58,000 youngsters. if we had kept the war going, we could have doubled that number.

in days of yore, kings road into battle. now it is too easy to point to someone and say "you go, the guys i sent last month got killed."
lofty1 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
no, actually i think these guys are missing the point of the guard and reserves. my taxes aren't meant to finance a group of geriatric boy scouts. all they have to do is retire. they can camp on their own dime. it's obvious they are just taking advantage of a government program to give them an easy paycheck. how much? a house payment, a car payment, an extra allotment of cash to spend however they wish.

tell you what. tell these guys to give all their money back and pay for all the benifits they've received over the years they were physically unable to participate in combat. tell them that if they do that, they are free to stay home. they won't because they can't. that money and those benefits mean something to them financially. if it didn't, they would have retired.
CWFoster Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
"guys, you are missing the purpose of the guard for these "senior" citizens. it's like going to the club for them. a place to meet your buddies on a weekend, a place to go camping for a week or so once a year. it's like belonging to the elks or something like that. i don't know what they g3t paid, but i'll bet it is such a small amount, they would go for nothing but the fun of it."

Rick, the military is NOT a "club", if you read your own article, it said his military salary is $60K.
CWFoster Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I'm 45, when I hit my 20 year mark, I'll be 53. (I started late!) I knew what I signed up for when I raised my hand. This guy ALMOST retired, but he had his mind changed by a promotion. Well, you chose, and it didn't work out like you thought! Too bad. Kerry chose to do coastal patrols because it was nice safe duty, and while training for it, the mission changed to riverine patrols, and became some of the most dangerous work to do. Them's the breaks!
JonR Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo Rick:

Just because you were a physical wreck at age 50 doesn't mean everyone else is. When I was in my 50s I was in better shape than some guys in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. I'm 61 now and still workout and eat the right foods the right way and so do alot of others in their 50s. Besides don't you have to take a yearly physical exam to stay in the National Guard.

JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Oct 19 2004, 5:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
CWFoster

the 60K is for active duty, not reserve.
AVB Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2004, 2:57 AM EST
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Rick,

This statement is simply not true.

"guys, you are missing the purpose of the guard for these "senior" citizens. it's like going to the club for them. a place to meet your buddies on a weekend, a place to go camping for a week or so once a year. it's like belonging to the elks or something like that. i don't know what they g3t paid, but i'll bet it is such a small amount, they would go for nothing but the fun of it. "

I've worked with both National Guard and Marine Reserve units and the one thing they do better, across the board, is work together. Take for example a platoon sergeant, in the active force he may have 6-10 years in service and because of the changeover in personnel knows about half of his people well. A Reserve platoon sergeant may be in 20+ years and be in that position for over a decade. He knows most of his men, lives near them, goes out with them after drill. A much closer relationship that the active force will never have. These people have pride in what they do and for crew served weapons, regularly perform better than active units. Yes, they may not be as fast but I'll take the experience over speed any day.
calavera Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2004, 3:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-26-2002
Posts: 1,868
Rick that is the single most absurd thing that I have ever heard. If these clowns want to be in the elks or knights of columbus, then they should join.

Military service is not some slack off club. It is deadly serious.

J
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