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Last post 19 years ago by eleltea. 12 replies replies.
ATTN:LIBERAL HATERS
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Those who hate "liberals" really hate a free America

The rightist "conservative" media moguls who hate "liberals" actually hate a free America.

Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, Hannity and O'Reilly, the Weekly Standard and Wall Street Journal---they all rant at some unspecified species allegedly left of center.

But right from its birth, America has been the very definition of a liberal nation.

Today's Foxist ditto-heads would have hated all America's founders: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Paine, and even the father of the modern corporate state, Alexander Hamilton.

All were liberals, both classic and modern. The documents they wrote---the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights---all were the definition of liberal. Rush's "conservative" rightists would have hated them then. And though they won't admit it, they hate them now.

As for ending slavery, Ann Coulter would have SCREAMED at Abe Lincoln. The Emancipation Proclamation would have INFURIATED Hannity. The Gettysburg Address would have ENRAGED O'Reilly.

And don't even MENTION the environmentalism of U.S. Grant or Teddy Roosevelt.

But lets start with Ben Franklin, the true father of our country. This ultimate Enlightenment genius was the western world's most famous citizen. The man who defined electricity was America's leading writer, publisher, diplomat and humorist. "Poor Richard's Almanac" was one of the world's most influential publications. Franklin helped found so many institutions---public libraries, post offices, insurance companies---and made so many inventions---like the lightning rod and Franklin stove---that his vita fills whole books.

He was the only man to sign the Big Three: The Declaration, the Treaty of Paris (which sealed the Revolution's victory) and the Constitution.

Ben Franklin was also the ultimate liberal. He signed the first abolitionist petition to Congress. Supremely tolerant, he loved beautiful women, fine food, and the French. He believed in freedom, diversity, the Enlightenment, and progress. He spoke with amusement of the wild oats he sowed as a youth, and of "the ladies" he courted while seducing France into helping the young America free itself from the British.

Can you hear Rush's blood boil? Can you taste Ann Coulter's venom spewing through the centuries?

Then there's Tom Jefferson: brilliant, learned, master architect, ultimate phrase turner, Lockean liberal. Nobody stoked the leftist rhetoric of revolution and democracy, equality and progress better than Jefferson. He was a slave-owner, which the right would have liked. But he also consorted with one, the spirited Sally Hemmings, with whom he had at least three children. Can you hear Jerry Falwell SCREAM!!!

Then that shrimpy James Madison, spouting off about human liberties, combing the state constitutions to draft that ultimate liberal screed, the Bill of Rights. Hannity would have declared it "obsolete" at birth. If there's one document the conservatives hate most of all, it's Jamie Madison's Ten Commandments of civil rights and liberty.

Even George Washington, the ultimate war hero, stood his ground on a free America. When offered the dictatorship, he refused, saying America should remain a republic. Can you imagine George Bush, who never saw battle, doing the same?

To top it off, the master of Mount Vernon took enormous pains to make sure his slaves were freed and well cared for upon his death. What a bleeding heart!

As for Hamilton, the darling of the early corporations was born a ****. He was a monarchist, which the National Review would have liked. He set the foundation for the modern American industrial state, from which Murdoch still profits.

But like Bill Clinton, Hamilton was also forced to admit to an extra-marital affair. And---can you believe it---he was an abolitionist! He opposed slavery!! Fox News is howling!!!

Even John Adams, staunch federalist, distruster of the people, supported the Bill of Rights. When Haitian slaves staged the world's second anti-imperial revolution, Adams stood by them. He even made national headlines by having a man of color to dinner! The Wall Street Journal edit page would have gone ballistic!

And that feminist wife of his, that Hillary....er Abigail Adams. Rush would have branded her the ultimate femi-nazi.

Throw in Abe Lincoln, that liberal ACLU-type lawyer, fighting a war to free black people, telling the southerners they can't secede. A damn totalitarian, right O'Reilly?

Then U.S. Grant, who established Yellowstone Park, and Teddy Roosevelt who fought for so many more like it. Wimps! Greenies!! Bleeding hearts!!! Eco-Terrorists!!!!

Put it all together and you have a group of pointy-headed liberal geniuses whose Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, Emancipation Proclamation, national parks and much much more remain the liberal bulwark of world freedom---unless the America-haters can destroy them. Unless the new George III can use the sword of terror to stab America's liberal heart.

The word "Christian" does not appear in the Constitution, no matter what Pat Robertson says. Most of the founders were Deists. They believed a divine being set this world in motion and then set the laws of nature free to work their magic.

Most of all the Founding Fathers hated---UNANIMOUSLY---the idea of an official church, or a bunch of self-appointed bigots telling everyone else what to believe.

They bitterly opposed theocrats like Falwell and Robertson who forever preach that those who question the corporate church-state are traitors. In the Foxist world, diversity itself is intolerable.

But it was precisely that diversity the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights to protect.

In short, they were LIBERALS. And the nation they so successfully spawned has always been just that---LIBERAL.

So when we hear extremists like Limbaugh and Coulter, Hannity and O'Reilly howling away, we know it's not just liberals they hate. It's the free, diverse, tolerant nation the Founding Fathers created. The one whose liberal Bill of Rights lets even Foxist America-haters make oxy-morons of themselves all day, everyday.

That's how Ben and Tom and his liberal pals wanted it. May it always be thus.


MACS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
I don't know where you copied this from, but how very nice of this author to speak on other people's behalf.

How does s/he know how these people feel or what they might think of a certain situation?

Pure conjecture, nothing more. Oh, and how very inflammatory of you rick. I'm shocked.... NOT.
gjhuff Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 05-30-2002
Posts: 56
To cast the Founding Fathers in the role of "liberals" shows a great lack of understanding and appreciation for American history. Those men were learned, accomplished and mostly wealthy pillars of colonial society who were driven to revolution by English tyranny, not "liberal" politics. Just examine a few points:

First, Rick says "Those who hate "liberals" really hate a free America." Conservatives don't "hate" liberals - we disagree with them. Freedom does not mean that citizens can only believe in the liberal ideology of the current Democratic party, as thos who support political correctness and say they "hate" President Bush would suggest.

Second, Rick says that today's Foxist ditto-heads would have hated all America's founders: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Paine, and even the father of the modern corporate state, Alexander Hamilton. But all of the above were skeptical of government and wanted to limit its powers. That's the central tenet of conservatism today.

Third, Rick claims that conservatives would have been against ending slavery. Excuse me, but slavery was ended by the Republican party under Abe Lincoln. Curent day Democrats can trace their party to the people who wanted to appease the South, such as Stephen Douglas and George Macllellan. And 1840-1860 Republicans were composes of many members of the Abolitionist movement which was influenced by religious groups who felt slavery was evil. Rick would call them Christian right-wing nuts today.

Fourth, Ben Franklin was not "the ultimate liberal." Liking beautiful women, enjoying fine foods and even partaking of French wines are not indicative of a person's politics. Franklin held many views consistent with today's conservative movement. He would not have approved of the current concept of diversity where a person's skin color or sex can insure them a certain outcome. He was an entrepreneur who believed in property rights and small business. Remember "early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise?"

Fifth, Tom Jefferson was a slave owner, but also a very compassionate man given the times in which the lived. To assert, without foundation, that conservatives would support slavery is truly despicable and demagogic. Like many of today's conservatives, Jefferson also believed in limited government.

Sixth, it is also unfair to suggeset that conservatives do not honor the bill of rights. All of these rights place limits on the actions of government and not private individuals. It is liberalism today, with its slavish devotion to political correctness, that poses greater dangers to our freedoms.

Seventh, what evidence exists that George W. wants to be king? Seems like his actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are advancing the cause of democracy over that of dictatorship in the finest tradition of the first president.

Eight, Rick describes Abe Lincoln as a "liberal ACLU-type lawyer, fighting a war to free black people, telling the southerners they can't secede." Abe Lincoln was a corporate lawyer who fought for the Illinois Central Railroad. He did not fight the war, at least initially, to free slaves but to preserve the union. In fact, the evidence suggests, from the Lincoln-Douglas debates, that he wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa - he didn't want to give them equal rights. Radical Republicans (who Rick would today call right-wing nuts) such as Thaddeus Stephens insisted on full rights after the Civil War ended.

Nine, Rick correctly points out that the Founding Fathers opposed the idea of an official church. But he reveals his bigotry when he equates those in churches to "a bunch of self-appointed bigots telling everyone else what to believe." The Founding Fathers did not want church and state to mix - but they did strongly favor the values espoused in their respective religions. Today's alleged "theocrats" such as Falwell, Robertson, Billy Graham etc. preach the importance of their values - not the primacy of any one religion.

Ten, Rick asserts that "In the Foxist world, diversity itself is intolerable...But it was precisely that diversity the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights to protect." The Founding Fathers had no concept of "diversity" as we understand the term today. They wrote the Constitution to create a strong union and the Bill of Rights to limit the powers of that union. Many of the Founding Fathers believed, but certainly not all of them, that people should be judged as individuals - not based on what group they belong to. This again is one of the central tenets of modern conservatism - as frequently set forth by Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia.

America has always been, and hopefully always will be, a nation where citizens decide how we will be governed from the marketplace of ideas potential leaders put forward. That is the gift we received from the Founding Fathers who took good ideas from both conservative and liberal sources.

Rick, I respect your right to disagree with me, but strongly resent your spurious efforts to link conservatives with the evils in our nation's past. You do not do your cause any good in making such arguments.
Double D Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
gjhuff

Excellent reply...a brilliant point-by-point repudiation of "Rick's" drivel.

DD
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
gjhuff

at first i just glanced at your response, but i have printed it to read tomorrow. the glance tells me there is merit in what you have to say.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
The only problem I can see with his reply is he credited you with the ideas listed in your post.

Now, rick, wasn't it you who mentioned something about copying and pasting another's thoughts from a "consevative" site? You just did the same from a "liberal" site...
CWFoster Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
All this fails to take into account the shifting terrain of politics in which a Jeffersonian Liberal (what my father was, and what I try to be) is now what is protrayed as a rabid right-wing conservative by todays liberal standards. But what would you expect from a political group that paints Kerry whose voting record is left of Kennedy's, as a centrist!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
MACS(SW)

i have done both.
Charlie Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
What a bunch of silly drivel!

Another Rickie moment!

Charlie
JonR Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
I have no "hatred" in my heart toward liberals, the feeling is more like sorrow and pity, much like I feel toward priest who molest children and serial rappist. You see liberals are much like molesters and rappist, they can not help what they do, so they molest us with their laws they pass and rape us by giving our hard earned tax dollars to those who choose not to work and demand free monies and free health care.

JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
JonR

i didn't know you were still working. what do you do for a living?
eleltea Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Can one hate Limbaugh and Coulter and still love America?
eleltea Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Speaking of Ben Franklin, did you hear about the Frenchman who fell asleep as soon as his feet touched the pillow?
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