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Last post 3 weeks ago by DrMaddVibe. 97 replies replies.
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What happened to the deal maker?
Speyside Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 3,225
President Trump failed to close the deal on AHCA. I thing this is an ominous start to his presidency in that his first major change failed.
rfenst Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 27,503
Speyside wrote:
President Trump failed to close the deal on AHCA. I thing this is an ominous start to his presidency in that his first major change failed.


Not enough R's wanted to play with him.
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
this is not intended to be a slap at Trump...running huge (or small) businesses is not the same as governing.

This occurred to me when the owner of the company I work for declared after a discussion of options..."this is not a democracy. we will do it my way. no one else gets a vote here. end of discussion"

We are a successful 30 year old company and we are having a major growth cycle now, and his way is clearly the way to run our biz.

Perhaps Trump opened a window to his vision of the Presidency pre-election when he spoke of admiring Putin. I made this connection when my boss uttered his declaration of how things would be done at work. Running the biz, certainly Trump could just say no one else has a vote, like my boss did, and like the admired Russian despot does too.

A dictator can do this, but Trump may have felt that what works in the board room would work in D.C...he will need to learn. And learn to get the votes as well.
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
I wasn't impressed with the deal or his sales pitch... prolly a good thing it didn't pass... when it crashes it will still have Obama's name it... if his new plan failed it's on him... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
... so after 8 years the plan is still ... do nothing.

...the republicans really sh*t the bed on this one.
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
So, how do you take away free stuff Victor. .?? How do you fund it nobody with money wants it..?? How Victor. .?? Your country needs you man... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,552
Putin would just kill the recipients and anyone that said anything about it.
DrafterX Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Think
Ya, but I think the death panel thing was voted down. .. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
If your goal is to not give free stuff then you take it away.

Their goal isn't to do that though. Their goal is to get reelected.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Term limits comes into play then... maybe then they start making the right choices... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
Whatever... I'm fine if you want term limits...

My point is that they are working to achieve their actual goal... not what they said they would do.
SteveS Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,180
victor809 wrote:
Their goal is to get reelected.


An exact and precise truth ... irrespective of party, feeding at the public trough is a career choice for a huge number of folks ... and strangely enough, we seem to demand that ... an argument against Trump, for example, was that he had no governmental experience ... Hillary was cited as being "one of the most experienced candidates ever" ... but, both were horrible choices ...

Term limits sounds good, but is somewhat less than truly effective ... Kamala Harris, newly elected Senator from CA, for example, was District Attorney in SF, then Attorney General of CA and now a US Senator from CA ... Diane Feinstein, the other Senator from CA was a member of the Board of Supervisors in SF, then Mayor of SF, then Senator ... her sole employment prior to being elected as a Supervisor (think City Council) was as a city employee ...

These professional pols are completely disconnected from real life ... they have zero experience living as you and I do, with real jobs and real daily concerns ... they are the antithesis of what the founding fathers envisioned, a citizen government in which various citizens served a term or maybe two in office, then returned to their normal lives ...

Bottom line truth is, our system isn't working well and is headed south ... I could not imagine how we could do worse than we did in electing Obama ... then came the choice between Hillary and Trump and it was immediately apparent that we were absolutely going to do worse, but with which it wasn't so easy to discern ... and now, we're in the soup ... we're seeing what worse looks like and with nitwits like Chuck Shumer, Nancy Pelosi, Chris Christie and Ted Cruz standing by, things are not exactly looking better ...
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
#12- one the most balanced posts by an admitted conservative I've read here
elRopo Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 849
Phuq the deal.....spin the wheel.
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Gulag..?? Huh
Speyside Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 3,225
Well stated Steve.
elRopo Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 849
DrafterX wrote:
Gulag..?? Huh

Poor Blaster.
Mr. Jones Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 8,254
He's too busy figuring out which city his
Darling travelling ban of gypsies family is going
To tomorrow, then monday, then Tuesday , then Wednesday, then Thursday, then Friday, then next Saturday....

^^^ sounds LIKE ANOTHER $10+ million dollar
Week in Secret Service coverage coming up....
tonygraz Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,213
I hear Trump is trying to get Monty Hall as the White House Deal advisor.
delta1 Online
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,063
Was health care coverage in the US better before Obamacare? If so, how...I forget...
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
People weren't fined for not having it... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Small businesses didn't have to go out of business because of it... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
People weren't laid off because owners couldn't afford it. .. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 19,127
delta1 wrote:
Was health care coverage in the US better before Obamacare? If so, how...I forget...


Well, it was cheaper.

A LOT cheaper.

And we all seem to forget that much of Obamacare was back-loaded.

So if nothing changes, it'll get worse before it gets better.



SteveS Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,180
tailgater wrote:
Well, it was cheaper.
A LOT cheaper.
And we all seem to forget that much of Obamacare was back-loaded.
So if nothing changes, it'll get worse before it gets better.


I'd say that was spot-on other than the last phrase, which I don't see happening ... it'll get worse alright, but I've no idea how or when it'll get better ...

AND, in late-breaking news, the House Minority "Leader", nitwit Nancy Pelosi held an open house in SF on Saturday 3/25 in which she's advocating "improvements" to Obamacare ... designed, of course, to expand and enlarge the scope of the Affordable Care Act ... so named despite making health care more expensive rather than more affordable and passing those costs off to productive members of society in order that the unproductive citizens, non citizens and even ILLEGAL ALIENS can be covered at no expense to themselves ... nitwit Nancy, of course, isn't covered by Obamacare herself, but has a Cadillac Plan (also paid for by productive citizens) so she and other members of congress bear neither the costs or inconveniences of this bullsh*t plan ... nor, of course, would they have to do so for the expanded version she's cooking up ...
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
That Bassard. .!! Mad
tonygraz Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,213
Drafter you forgot to mention how much money Hospitals lost when there was no ACA ?
jjanecka Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 2,036
So then Obamacare's plan was to line the pockets of the hospitals and not benefit the people?

It was a market bubble really and just like all bubbles it will eventually crash and burn.

Obamacare was a manufactured crisis. Everyone in the room passing the bill knew it. That's why we have republicans swooping in as if they were saviors. Hate to sound like jonesy but it was all frabicated so that someone would come in and fix it. No different than the banking regulations.
delta1 Online
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,063
Pre-Obama care healthcare was not working for most Americans. Too expensive to buy health insurance. Many who did have policies discovered that they had few actual coverage benefits and with such high deductibles, limits on coverage, annual caps on pay-outs, lifetime caps that their policies were not worth it. So Obamacare required health insurers to provide real coverage:

Every health plan under Obamacare must cover the following services:

* Ambulatory patient services (outpatient care you get without being admitted to a hospital)
* Emergency services
* Hospitalization (like surgery and overnight stays)
* Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care (both before and after birth)
* Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment (this includes counseling and psychotherapy)
* Prescription drugs
* Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices (services and devices to help people with injuries, disabilities, or chronic conditions gain or recover mental and physical skills)
* Laboratory services
* Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
* Pediatric services, including oral and vision care (but adult dental and vision coverage aren’t essential health benefits)

That is the minimum, plus no dropping due to pre-existing conditions and children can be covered under their parent's plans until 26 years old. The "utter failure and collapse" of Obamacare has resulted in more than 22 million Americans with actual/real heathcare coverage than before.

The GOP plan dropped all those minimum coverages, so we would've gone back to pre-Obamacare conditions when the health insurance companies could sell whatever crap they wanted.
delta1 Online
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,063
Who paid the most for Obamacare and have the most to gain with its repeal?

High income earners with incomes over $400,000, after deductibles, credits and adjustments; large businesses with 50 or more employees; and for-profit health insurance companies and for profit healthcare providers. They are the ones the GOP is helping the most by repealing Obamacare...but they've been selling the average American sucker something else...
Speyside Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 3,225
+1 For delta's last 2 posts.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Not all of Obamacare was bad... especially for people with existing problems. .. it just can't be funded by people who don't want it. .. making people pay for coverage they don't need is a big problem. .. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
....
You can't expect the insurance companies to fund people with preexisting conditions without giving them something. That was the entire deal (which I have never liked)...

I don't like the idea of forcing companies to insure someone with preexisting conditions. You're changing the equations. Companies are not making rates based on whether you may get sick in the future... they're being expected to take care of you now... when you are sick. Hell... someone in this forum bragged about getting ACA insurance for their brother after he got sick... and then dropping it after he got better. That's treating insurance as if it is health care... which it isnt. If you decide to force an independent company to take on that sort of risk you have to force someone to pay them for it. That's just the way the world works...


tonygraz Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,213
DrafterX wrote:
Not all of Obamacare was bad... especially for people with existing problems. .. it just can't be funded by people who don't want it. .. making people pay for coverage they don't need is a big problem. .. Mellow


It works for automobile insurance.
SteveS Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,180
tonygraz wrote:
It works for automobile insurance.


Not exactly .. they don't have to pay for damage incurred in a crash that happened before you bought your insurance policy ...
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Ya, I dropped my brother's insurance because I was dupped into it and it ended up costing a hell of a lot more than they said it would. .. he had existing coverage but they claimed it wasn't enough. .. long story. ..

I understand forcing the insurance company to take on an immediate debt sucks... but it was good for the sick bassards. .. can't just let them die tho...

Bad things can happen to good people. . Someone who held a job for 25 years and gets canned then loses their insurance should have some help I suppose. . But where do you draw the line..?? Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,552
Insurance is for long term. We are short term thinkers politically.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
I'm pretty sure i'll always have employer coverage until I retire anyways.. it still costs a lot of money... I know there are options after that but long term plan sounds cool... why not have a plan you pay for 30 years be good for life..?? I think the insurance company' s would still make money... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
Simply put drafter... insurance is gambling. You're betting you will need more medical care than you're putting in over the years... they're betting you won't. Now with selectively better pricing for insurance companies, you can both be right in some cases... but either way that stops being anywhere near a fair bet if you require they cover you even if you didn't pay in at all until you just then got sick.

You think it's ok to do that to insurance companies but think it's violating people's rights to make them buy insurance when they don't want to... (which is incidentally is right up to the point they get sick if you make insurance companies take on people with preexisting conditions)... you don't think about the rights of the insurance companies... remember republicans established that companies are people too.
frankj1 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
forget it Victor. They all still believe you are actually a libtard rather than a chitstirrer.

You have given me some stuff to think about here though.
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,132
Ya. I know. .. no easy solution. .. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
DrafterX wrote:
Ya. I know. .. no easy solution. .. Mellow

yup.

to my knowledge, the idea that America deserved to have everyone insured began with Ted Kennedy and Richard Nixon.

Trash Romneycare all you (not you X) want but this idea of covering all citizens has been floating around for a half century for a YUUUGE reason...American citizens want it.

Emergency rooms started to turn profits because they did not have to be the PC Physician for uninsured folks with sniffles and stuff.

people talk about increased costs, but they have no figures that tell the truth about what uninsured medical care has been costing us all these decades. For all the whining, we may each be saving money, or at least could be with a few tweaks, while placing a higher value on life and health.
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
Heheh... they'll learn frank.

Obamacare wasn't good. I didn't like it because all you're doing is maintaining a kind of broken system and just forcing people to pump money into it...

But the things everyone (republicans and dems) like about Obamacare, such as requiring they cover preexisting conditions are so absolutely exploitable that you cannot offer them without requiring people buy into the system when they may not want to. There are better ways of doing this. Or we can be practical and just let people die. We make more.
frankj1 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
victor809 wrote:
Heheh... they'll learn frank.

Obamacare wasn't good. I didn't like it because all you're doing is maintaining a kind of broken system and just forcing people to pump money into it...

But the things everyone (republicans and dems) like about Obamacare, such as requiring they cover preexisting conditions are so absolutely exploitable that you cannot offer them without requiring people buy into the system when they may not want to. There are better ways of doing this. Or we can be practical and just let people die. We make more.

I posted 42 while you were posting this...again you have stuff to say here.
delta1 Online
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,063
victor809 wrote:
Heheh... they'll learn frank.

Obamacare wasn't good. I didn't like it because all you're doing is maintaining a kind of broken system and just forcing people to pump money into it...

But the things everyone (republicans and dems) like about Obamacare, such as requiring they cover preexisting conditions are so absolutely exploitable that you cannot offer them without requiring people buy into the system when they may not want to. [h]There are better ways of doing this. Or we can be practical and just let people die. We make more.


Or accept that healthcare is something every citizen should have, kinda basic to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" thingy.

We could just let people die... that is the ultra conservative viewpoint. If you can't pay for it, then too bad, because you can't expect me to shell out a penny for your healthcare.

Really harsh...but eventually one of those people will be someone close to/or you...

The fundamental question that should be asked is should healthcare and health insurance continue to be a "for profit" business, like in America. Most modern societies have single payer systems: kinda like social security where every tax payer pays a small percentage for healthcare, thereby ensuring a consistent and large enough pool of money for every one, coupled with wellness programs and preventative care systems to reduce catastrophic costs.
victor809 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
Meh. I'm willing to side with the conservatives and let people die in the streets. But a bunch of shady liberals like drafter want to find a way to support people who don't pay into the system at all until they get sick... and they apparently want corporations to pay for it.
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
you're being sucked in Al...he's been sucking cons for years

Sorry Victor, couldn't/wouldn't come up with better wording.
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,063
Hehe...
No problem Frank.

Hell the so called conservatives here (CINO?) want to be socialists deep down. They just aren't smart enough to realize money has to come from somewhere.
JoeKillerKeenan Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2017
Posts: 12
Burn the snow flakes! ram27bat
Lots of millennials that get "outraged" over BS.

The only thing I care for at the moment is for some respect. There is no respect from the majority of the left.
That is just sad. Have you seen that video of the Berkeley professor calling right wings Nazis? Shame on you
frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,156
burn the snowflakes?

welcome?
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