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Russian hacking . . .
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DrafterX Offline
#101 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 7:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Obama sanctioned with no proof so they must be guilty right..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#102 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I get what you are saying. It's sort of like the lack of an Adlai Stevenson moment prior to Iraq that made me go oh **** we got nothing.

That said what I've read has been pretty compelling and I recognize much can not be released because it would give our tactics away. Trump of all people would appreciate that so I'm sure he wouldn't leverage that to his perceived benefit.

That said while dubious of our government and intel I tend to hold it in higher regard than Russia's and also recognizing politics creep in to our intel it's still not like Russia's where they are one.

All that aside of course russia is meddling in ours and the worlds internal affairs where they can. It's in their best interest. We need to protect ourselves and push back.

This isn't about trump or Clinton to me. Accept who won and approach the Russian subject aggressively without regard to politics. We are adult enough to do that.
teedubbya Offline
#103 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:07 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I actually agree with trump. It didn't cause him to win. I just wish everyone on both sides would stipulate that so the conversation could focus and we could act as one America rather than one party or another where putting higher credence in a Putin government makes sense.
DrafterX Offline
#104 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I agree... but many are using this to try to discredit the election results... keep em separated... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#105 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:14 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yup. keep it separated. Many are also discounting it for the same reason. Equally bogus.
DrafterX Offline
#106 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Would be nice to see proof but I too understand the dangers... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#107 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:24 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't need proof. I just assume they do these things. The proof internally for our leaders should be designed to help them learn how to better protect ourselves and to push back. Focus. Our lack of focus helps them.
teedubbya Offline
#108 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Healthy skepticism of our government is cool, considering putins as any sort of equivalent is insanity to me.
DrafterX Offline
#109 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I wouldn't want to be President but I think Putin's boldness comes from a lack of retaliation for their recent actions... if the President draws a red line he'd best back it up... last thing I want is another war but we can't be walked on either. .. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#110 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I'm sure he was watching our dealings and lack of retaliation against Iran real close too.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#111 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:36 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Agree with you there specific to Putin. Too late for Obama to get tough.
DrafterX Offline
#112 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 8:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
He shoulda invited Putin over for a beer sumit... Beer
frankj1 Offline
#113 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I accept the election results as legitimate.
Speyside Offline
#114 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I have to believe Frank, he's like a genius.
DrafterX Offline
#115 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
True.. true... I just hope Trump doesn't screw up... I think he's surrounded himself with smart enough people to keep him inline tho..
Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#116 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
True.. true... I just hope Trump doesn't screw up... I think he's surrounded himself with smart enough people to keep him inline tho..
Mellow

smaht enough to invest in and with Russia?
DrafterX Offline
#117 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I don't think comunication is a bad thing. .. I can't imagine him risking anything as close as he's gonna be watched... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#118 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
We gotta give him a chance... we can choose agai in 4 years.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#119 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As close as he is going to be watched? He doesn't gaf. He thinks he can get away with anything and may be right.
teedubbya Offline
#120 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:40 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Many will support anything he says or does...


I know I know Obama.......
DrafterX Offline
#121 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Imagine what Hillary would've done. .. I still think pay-to-play thing is real.. FBI is still looking at it.... don't think Tru is my hero... I've said all along the only reason I voted for him was he wasn't Hillary. .. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#122 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I didn't vote for either of 'em.
teedubbya Offline
#123 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Hillary is irrelevant yet will still be used to say everything trump does is ok
DrafterX Offline
#124 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 9:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Trump isn't President yet... but the bullchit flags are already flying... and I know, Obama. .. Laugh
DrafterX Offline
#125 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Hillary is irrelevant but Trump will always be compared to or measured against what people think she might have done... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#126 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
he should be measured by what he does... good or bad. I hope it's good.
teedubbya Offline
#127 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:08 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You can't just make up something you think Hillary would have done and argue at least it's better than that and be taken seriously by anyone other than someone that is already a pshchophant...
DrafterX Offline
#128 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
True... true... luckily there's plenty of those out there. .. Laugh
DrafterX Offline
#129 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Or unfortunately. . Depends on where you stand I guess... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#130 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
TW either meant sycophant or elephant
teedubbya Offline
#131 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:20 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Psycho phant

Never could spelt
frankj1 Offline
#132 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
isn't that an ancient grain?
Speyside Offline
#133 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 10:32 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
If an elephant was a psychotic I would call it a pshchophant. No, a psychophant.
delta1 Offline
#134 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:30 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
DrafterX wrote:
Trump isn't President yet... but the bullchit flags are already flying... and I know, Obama. .. Laugh



Fl. Gov. Scott said to reporters that he called Trump and Pence after the Ft. Lauderdale airport shootings, but not the White House where the current President still resides...
DrafterX Offline
#135 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Interesting. .. I bet Obama's pissed... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#136 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:34 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
...maybe he told the White House pbx operator to refuse all calls from Florida...I heard he said some of the worst days as President were when mass shootings happened...
DrafterX Offline
#137 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I dunno man.. sounds strange to me... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#138 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:54 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
yea...I gotta stop listening to Russian news...
DrafterX Offline
#139 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2017, 11:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Laugh
opelmanta1900 Offline
#140 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 12:00 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
teedubbya wrote:
I don't need proof. I just assume they do these things.

DrafterX Offline
#141 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Russian politicians and news media are scoffing that the recently released report by U.S. security services blaming the country’s government of meddling in the U.S. presidential race.

Alexei Pushkov, a member of the upper house of parliament's defense and security committee, said on Twitter that "all the accusations against Russia are based on 'confidence' and suppositions. The USA in the same way was confident about (Iraqi leader Saddam) Hussein having weapons of mass destruction."

In another tweet on Saturday, Pushkov suggested that President "Obama is alarmed: Republicans trust Putin more than Democrats."

Margarita Simonyan, the editor of government-funded satellite TV channel RT that is frequently mentioned in the U.S. report, said in a blog post: "Dear CIA: what you have written here is a complete fail."

On Friday, a declassified U.S. intelligence report accused Putin of ordering a campaign to influence the U.S. election and hurt 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s candidacy -- findings made public after officials briefed President-elect Donald Trump.

The report adds fresh fuel to the debate over Russia’s involvement in email hacking that affected Democratic groups during the 2016 race. Trump has publicly questioned the evidence linking Russia.

And hours before the briefing, Trump called it a “political witch hunt.”

However, Trump and the intelligence community seemed to find some common ground after the briefing. Both Trump and the report said the Russians did not target vote tallying.

Trump, in a statement, went a step further and said “there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election including the fact that there was no tampering whatsoever with voting machines.”


A day after, Trump renewed his call for better Washington-Moscow relations and suggested naysayers are “fools” or “stupid people.”

“Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only "stupid" people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We … have enough problems around the world without yet another one. When I am president, Russia will respect us far …

“more than they do now and both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!,” Trump tweeted.

Film at 11.... Think
teedubbya Offline
#142 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Pay attention to the rest of that quote Opel. Context means something.

I also don't need to know that next Tuesday we will be attacking allepo or that we know where terrorists leaders are and will raid tomorrow.

But I do assume the ruskies who are led by a KGB agent (not former) and have no checks and balances between their intelligence community and leadershipship are spying on us in every whay they are capable and are proving how far they can act and modifying their actions accordingly. I assume we are doing the same but since I am on our side.....

It's hard for me to take seriously the no we are not or prove it attitude the Russians take. I expect it. They did the same during the Cuban missle crisis. It's odd to see folks line up with Putin on the issue. I can only assume it's insecurity over the win in trumps case and a partisan game being played by both sides.

We will not have 100% proof. We (the public) cant. The intel community probably can't reach 100% very often on anything, and certainly can't often share that kind if intel when they do. Demanding 100% proof up front (the joining the Russian game) pretty much means denying no matter what. That's why they do it.

Trump won. The issue to me in no way dilutes or changes it. There may be some sore loser commie lib occupooper types playing that angle but they have no credibility or respect from me. It's fine to stress it didn't change the election, but the argument that they didn't meddle to me becomes one with the other group. The yin to the yang neither to be taken seriously.

That's not blind allegence to our intel however. I gave them the benefit of the doubt on Iraq until Powell dropped nothing at the UN. Some in here argued (maybe still do) for years that the intel was right because their family fighting there saw blah blah blah. Now they are shocked anyone would think the Russians are doing exactly what we would do and probably are.

Meh. We all draw our own conclusions.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#143 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
there's so much there, I'll just hit on the obviously disturbing...

you say "I'm on our side"...

try being on the side of humanity... putin doesn't hurt from the sanctions we place on russia, everyday russians do... and I'm as much on their side as I am on anyone's side... I don't think God is american or has a special place in his heart for me because I'm american...

I think when we encourage our government to punish others or applaud their punishment of others when they've failed to produce even a morsel of evidence for what they're charged with, well, what was your complaint about russia? no checks and balances? who checked the fbi on this one? who's balancing the anti-russia intelligence community?

sounds like trump is trying to provide that check and balance by requiring the intelligence community to provide support for their allegations, and they're failing to do so... and you stated - in context - that you're ok with that because your side is the one doing it... you lambasted people for swearing the exact same allegiance to trump...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#144 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
and no one is demanding 100% proof... I've literally asked numerous times to be pointed in the direction of any amount of evidence and have yet to see it or see you reference it... it meaning evidence... any of it... anything will do... anything... just make your next post some form of some kind of actual evidence that points directly to russian involvement and I will drop it completely...
MACS Offline
#145 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Advantage... Opel.
DrafterX Offline
#146 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Turns out only 3 of the 14 intelligence agencies (and TW) think Russia did it... unlike ALL 14 as Hillary stated...Mellow
Brewha Offline
#147 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
Turns out only 3 of the 14 intelligence agencies (and TW) think Russia did it... unlike ALL 14 as Hillary stated...Mellow

So you're saying that 11 of our intelligence agencies are already compromised by the Russians?

Wow, Trump must really be a commie lover......
DrafterX Offline
#148 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
well, they're still Obama's... another failure for his legacy maybe..?? Think
teedubbya Offline
#149 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Supporting Putin and his position is not supporting humanity or his people.

As for checks and balances they do exist in our government and simply do not in putins. I do not and did not say it's ok for our side to operate without them. We have multiple intel sources/agencies with civilian oversight. The fact you may have disdain or lack of trust in congress and obama but do in trump doesn't change that. Tou think trump is demanding something not demanded before. I don't.

As for proof I simply trust my government with all of its checks and balances more than I trust putins without any of them. I explained above that I don't think it needs to be immediately proven to the general public but it appears as if enough has been proven to our elected officials that there is a bipartisan consensus. If we find later it was a farce there should be repercussions.

That said it appears as if we are catering to public opinion and the report in some form will be released. I've not seen it. I honestly hope it doesn't give too much away. That plays in to putins hands.

I believe we've proved the link and shown the transfer of information from the Russian government to sources like wiki. I also believe we've established who/what guccifer is and it's within the Russian government. I also believe we've been watching the Russians hack and know their methods and "tells" which I believe are laid out in the report which is not just an FBI report. I could go on but in reality I don't take on the mantle of having to prove the intel nor will I get baited in to doing so.

I said I don't need proof (100% or otherwise) in this instance and am afraid providing proof actually weakens our efforts. That's the Russian play.

While I am dubious of our government at times I simply don't find it remotely equivalent of Putins and can't find the reason for virtually every intel agency to be lying and getting on the bad side of the new admin while putin and crew are simply innocent victims.

It has nothing to do with God, humanity or justifying wrong doing by my country. I do however trust my government by far more than I trust putin. Add that to what I think is common sense that of course they are trying to do these things and it's pretty easy for me.

That said if you think Russia is the victim here and the us is the bad guy I will concede I could not prove you wrong in court.



teedubbya Offline
#150 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2017, 5:37 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The odd part to me is the folks that have seen the classified report seem pretty convinced (bipartisan). Trump was adamantly pushing back on it prior to seeing it but seems to be softening while saving face.

I honestly believe his sensitivity is towards having his win delegitimization and agree with him on the stupidity of podesta and the Dems in the first place.

None of theirs changes the stupidity of the Dems or their trechorous actions when they think no one is watching. It also does not deligitimize trumps win. Strip all that away and I think the Russians have a hacking program in place along with the Chinese etc and when we see it happen we'd better show we are resolute in stopping it. To just act like it's ok or play the coy who me? game is weak.
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